Then why is there a shutdown if they can just do what they want and votes don’t matter?
Authoritarian lizard brain. Authoritarians love going through the rituals of legitimacy. They’ll hold sham elections, hold show trials, make obvious lies to justify their actions because going though the motions satisfies them. It doesn’t matter to them if it’s fake or that other people see through it; what matters is the ritual.
Which I why I expect them to fix the election rather than call it off. Calling it off means they don’t get their ritual faked election.
Well, they cant really. An election is coming up in 2026, which the Dems were expected to win the House back. That is why Texas played games with gerrymandering. But the Repubs cant afford to lose the House.
I still don’t understand. All Leave for Federal Employees is cancelled in a shutdown.
It’s true about absolutely all bills whatsoever. Republicans have all of the power. What they want to happen is what’s happening.
Yes, the Democrats genuinely have the minority in all branches of government. I’m at a loss as to how anyone can think that the minority can accomplish anything that the majority doesn’t want.
Because they want a shutdown. Republicans have been saying for nearly my entire lifetime that they want to drown the government in a bathtub. And now they’re doing it.
Democrats aren’t being blamed, according to polling. And they shouldn’t be. Not only do Republican control everything, and could end the shutdown by themselves any day they choose, but this White House is refusing to follow congressionally-appropriated budget laws. If the White House won’t even follow a budget law, why on Earth would Democrats agree to a continuation of budget laws that have been ignored?
Thanks for clearing that up. I still don’t understand what you describe of your situation, but that is not necessary. This thread is not about your personal leave/financial situation.
I’m sure you are stressed. There was a front page article in this morning’s paper, saying 730k workers are working but not paid, 670k are furloughed, and 830k are still getting paid. Also said some billionaire “gave” the government 4130 mill to help pay military.
I’m one of those who is working without being paid right now.
To restate the obvious, Trump has been waging war aganst the bureaucracy and demonizing federal employees since the election. To put it mildly, being a federal employee has been stressful and confusing since January. But I’m sure that is intended to enhance efficiency! 
Yeah, I don’t know the exact polling numbers but it seems to me that this is one area in which the Democrats have an advantage in messaging: since the Republicans took the blame for all the previous shutdowns, people are predisposed to blame them for the current one. The Democrats could even make positive demands (rather than demands for stopping change) and I’m not even sure it would work out as bad as it normally does for them in other areas.
But, the question is, at what point is a tipping point reached? What specific factor will make enough news for either party to blink?
While I previously thought it impossible, I’m now seeing it easily last into the new year…
Right. Republicans have the power to invoke the nuclear option to forever change the Senate rules from requiring 60 votes that requires the minority to help (compromise), to only 50 votes that requires no minority help to get this simple bill passed (no compromise). This is what we’re saying when we say this. I would imagine, the new bill they put forward once only 50 votes is required would no longer be clean - the simple majority would have all the power and the minority would lose all it’s leverage. I would much prefer a shutdown that eventually gets resolved to that scenario.
The majority does want to reopen the Gov’t and is putting forth bills to try and do it. It’s just simple math. There is a clean bill that is being voted on by the entire Senate that would reopen the Gov’t right now. It needs a handful of Democrats to get it passed, but they are voting nay. This exact situation has happened hundreds of times in the past, and the minority always votes yay to prevent a shutdown. It happened earlier this year - 62 votes (9 Democrats). That’s why I think the minority could get the Gov’t reopened, which is what the majority wants when they put forward a clean appropriations bill that would reopen the Gov’t/prevent a shutdown.
None of this means I don’t think healthcare subsidies are important. It’s just numbers we’re talking about. This situation is about the shutdown/passing an appropriations bill. The Gov’t will not reopen if we pass an ACA subsidies bill.
But to be clear, I think the shutdown is both parties fault. Republicans don’t care about healthcare or it’s costs. They could do something right now to address and help fix that. Two things can be done at once, it happens all the time.
Republicans aren’t even following the budget bills they pass. Why would the Democrats vote for a budget law that is being ignored? This is not remotely what has happened in past shutdown disagreements.
This has been knocking around in my head. If I had to message this, I would do it like this. I would be honest, be serious, own the shutdown, and keep the focus on healthcare. It’s a righteous cause.
My message:
Your healthcare is important. On Jan 1 healthcare premiums will double for millions of Americans because a law is about to expire. Congress needs to extend that law right now to keep your healthcare costs low next year.
To do that and to keep this issue in focus, I am not going to vote to fund this Govt until we fund your healthcare. It will cost $350m to fund your healthcare for the next 10 years. Trump just demolished the East Wing of the WH to build the Trump ballroom. That also costs approx $350m. It should have been spent to fund your healthcare. Trump hurts people so he can help himself. He has no intention of helping or he would have.
I intend to fund your healthcare before I fund this Govt. The Govt will be temporarily shutdown while Congress works on a bill to fund your healthcare. So if you’re a federal employee that has not yet been fired by DOGE, please write your representative to pass this bill. That will help to speed this process up. There are both Democrats and Republicans that want to fund your healthcare. It will take hard work and serious people, but this can be done and your health is worth it.
You’ve got my vote. Tho I’m not sure how well such an honest, serious approach would work across our exceptional nation.
Some Republicans have started to break with the party line to not negotiate during the shutdown.
“That is just the wrong way to do this,” Senate Majority Leader John Thune, R-South Dakota, said Tuesday. “The way to approach this is just to reopen government.”
Sen. Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska, said Wednesday there’s been a “significant uptick in bipartisan conversations” related to ending the shutdown among rank-and-file lawmakers.
Quit whining. You Republicans know exactly what you need to do to make that happen.
Sorry, what?
Thune appeared to suggest on Wednesday that he would have a conversation with those involved in the negotiations. Asked if he would personally engage with centrist Democrats involved in the talks, Thune told CNN: “I think that will happen pretty soon.”
…
Democratic leaders, Thune said, are not involved in the negotiating. Asked whether he thought there would be enough moderate Democrats in the mix to reach a deal that would reopen the government, he expressed optimism.
It’s moderate Democrats who are breaking ranks and meeting with Republican leadership. If reports are to be believed (granted, it’s from three Republicans: Murkowski, Rounds, and Thune), Schumer is the one being flanked. The “the wrong way to do this” comment was in reference to Lujan’s motion for unanimous consent to fund SNAP, not the negotiations with Democrats on the CR.
It seems to me that when the Republican Senators were conducting a tyranny of the minority by blocking legislation through the filibuster, they were labeled obstructionists by Democrats and how dare they block the will of the majority because majority should rule. Also, very little call for the nuclear option IIRC although some did say it was time to get rid of the filibuster. How is this any different?
And at a certain point, the Dems need to ask themselves that is it worth the cost (SNAP benefits lost, government workers not getting a paycheck, etc.) to continue to fight for an extension of ACA subsidies?
Which shutdown was that? The 90s shutdown was a presidential veto. The 2013 one wasn’t a Senate filibuster, but a Republican-held House not passing a bill. The 2018 shutdown was Democrats filibustering over DACA. The 2019 shutdown was again Democrats filibustering to block funding for the border wall.