I didn’t say shutdown did I? I said blocking legislation as they did all throughout the Obama admnstration.
Unless Senators are planning on an enforcement mechanism (not sure what this could be) to ensure the White House actually spends the money as appropriated, what’s the point of negotiations?
It’s truly unprecedented territory when the WH doesn’t follow budget law but congress refuses to do anything about it.
Show of hands - how many folk believe the Repubs when they say they will be happy to negotiate health care after the shutdown ends? I feel I’ve heard that song before…
It’s like a guy saying, okay, I want to buy your car, give me the keys and sign over the registration to me, and I’ll drive off with it. I promise to call you next week to discuss how much I’m willing to pay you for it.
Because some of the biggest legacy media and social media organs in the country are openly in the tank for Republicans, and the remainder are imitating that bias so as not to seem biased themselves.
It’s all media. It’s 100% the media environment that’s created an alternate cinematic universe. Perfectly normal people are ranting about all of Biden’s screwups in 2020, apparently ignorant that Biden wasn’t president for any part of 2020, nor before that.
It’s not just Fox. Some formerly center-left organs see which way the wind is blowing, and they follow it. Nobody wants to lose their FCC license, every exec has toadies nipping at their heels who will kowtow to whatever Trump demand their superiors refuse. Twitter was the free public square, and now Nazi Elon Musk owns it. WaPo was a democratic bastion, and now Jeff Bezos owns it. Bari Weiss is the editor-in-chief at CBS, Olivia Nuzzi is now the west coast editor of Vanity Fair. Right-wing flacks are being handed the reins of the most influential media organs in the country.
Nope, nope nope.
Meanwhile, Mad King Donald is sabotaging his own party’s messaging by reminding everyone that Senate Republicans can end the shutdown right now with 50 votes.
Thanks Don! Progressive Democrats have tried for years to curtail the filibuster for legislation with no luck but now he’s going to force the GOP to do it over a clean CR.
Funny thing is I doubt the GOP has the votes for that (Paul is a no, and probably a few more).
Trade Paul for Fetterman so it’s a wash there.
OTOH the last few edge-case die-hard votes for/against closure don’t always map to actual votes for/against the bill itself. Once the plug is pulled they’d get their 50.
Honestly the cloture rule needed changing years ago. At the very least should have kept it so if you’re going to filibuster, then by Og, filibuster. Stand there until you pass out.
I’m jumping to the bottom of the thread, rather than reading the whole thing. I searched for ‘filibuster’.
We’ve recently had a Democratic Senator engage in a marathon filibuster, like Jimmy Stewart did in Mr. Smith Goes To Washington. I thought I heard a couple of years ago that senators don’t actually have to ‘stand there until you pass out’. I thought I heard that they can simply vote to filibuster. Like, ‘We clicked “Yes” the “Filibuster: Yes/No” popup. We’re filibustering now,’ and then they didn’t have to do anything until they ended the ‘virtual’ filibuster.
So: Is that how it currently works? If not, how does it work? If so, is the suggestion to get rid of the filibuster altogether? Or only ‘virtual’ filibusters?
Assuming there is not unanimous consent:
In the past (pre-1970s): You’d bring a bill to the floor and debate it. The debate could end in two ways: a vote of 60 (cloture) or when people stopped physically being there debating it (Mr. Smith Goes to Washington).
Current: You bring a bill to the floor. The debate only ends with a vote of 60 (cloture).
You can still stand there and debate for hours, but it’s performative/strategic for other reasons.
Late: I’ll say casually that it takes 60 votes to pass a bill in the Senate because that’s effectively true. You should be mindful though that it only takes a simple majority to actually pass a bill after the debate has ended. So if you’re just looking at past bills and who voted/how many it took you can be misled that it’s only > 50. It’s true, but needs context.
It’s not that easy. If they get rid of the filibuster then they cannot use it to obstruct when they are the minority party. That’s why they’ve talked about it for decades but neither side has pressed the button.
It’s called a procedural filibuster.
My prediction is when the Pubs nuke the filibuster (at least on budget bills), they will be seen as the heroes.
https://thehill.com/homenews/5582193-trump-gop-blamed-shutdown/
The Washington Post-ABC survey found that 45 percent of U.S. adults say the president and Republicans are to blame for the federal shuttering while 33 percent of survey respondents say they blame Democrats.
Twenty-two percent of participants said they were not sure who to hold responsible for the shutdown.
Trumps voters will blame everything on the democrats. They would blame Trump’s raping of his ex wife Ivana on Obama if they knew how.
Its sad this is the country we live in.
Honestly, I’m doubting the Republicans will ever again be the minority party. They’re already seeding doubts in people’s mind about the results of the mid-term elections next year. If/when the Democratic party sweeps the floor there’ll be challenges and litigation for years and – of course – you can’t seat anyone until it is clear they “legitimately” won.
More simply, the President, be it Trump or his successor, declares a national emergency, just like all of the tariff-inducing and murdering people on the high seas emergencies we’ve been having, and all elections are suspended until the emergency is over, and it never will be. The Supreme Court will rule 6 - 3 that he has the right to do so.
As the Presidents die off they will be replaced by working their way down the line if succession every goddam one of which – Except RFK, Jr. – is a Republican.
And at a certain point, the Reps need to ask themselves that is it worth the cost (SNAP benefits lost, government workers not getting a paycheck, etc.) to continue to skirt their responsibility for denying an extension of ACA subsidies?
This whole “Need 60 votes” thing is a trap for the Democrats. So, let’s say some of them decide, as you suggest, that the costs to other programs is too high, and so they cave on the ACA demands, and pass the current budget plan.
I 100% guarantee it that the Reps will turn around in 2026, and tell their voters, “Those damn Democrats voted to increase the cost of your medical insurance!!!”
You need to make the Republicans own this, lock stock and barrel. Take a look at Johnson this week, whining about how the Republicans “don’t control the government”, because a few Democratic Senators won’t let them do what they want. They’re already trying to deny responsibility for this before it’s even passed.
One: that is not a responsibility. It is a political position.
Two: Why should they have to to pass the budget? They are the majority party. It should work like it did in the House. We have the most votes so this is the budget we are passing.
AND the Dems will fumble their message.
As long as 41 can obstruct, then no I don’t.
“The filibuster is hereby waived for clean continuing resolution bills when the government has been shut down for more that 24 days in the year 2025”. Then, if Democrats try the same trick (assuming they’re ever in the majority), mainstream media: "Dems use nuclear option, breaking with longstanding tradition; conservative media: “Dems force bills down America’s throat.”
They’ve made one-time exceptions to the filibuster for, for example, waiving the debt limit.
“Republicans won’t do this thing, so I’ll blame Democrats.”
They made an exception LAST MONTH to mass approve Trump’s appointments. Trump’s appointees > poor Americans using SNAP or ACA.
I feel like you kind of missed my point. Yes, it’s a “political position”, and it’s one they support wholeheartedly, but it’s one they refuse to take responsibility for. They want to be able to blame the Democrats when it passes.
And yes, the whole point of the “Nuclear option” is that it will make the Senate work like the House. Simple majority passes the laws and budgets. But as I said, they don’t want that responsibility to fall on their own heads. They want to cut everything, but not be blamed for cutting everything. The Democrats have to stop enabling this. Refuse to vote, and make the Republicans go nuclear.