Why are many white people sensitive to noises?

In My Humble Opinion
101

Modify this to people with dark skin age better than people with light skin. The less melanin you have, the more prone you are to the aging effects of sun damage.

Dark skin is associated with membership in the black race. Light skin is associated with membership in the white race. I could explain how this association came about but it’s probably not necessary.

Because skin color doesn’t determine what race you belong to, there are plenty of very light-skinned black people despite the aforementioned association. And just as you’d expect, they show age just like other light-skinned people, even ones who are white. Being black offers them no extra protection. They need to wear sunscreen.

So it’s not a race thing. It’s a skin color thing.

102

I’m not normally a stupid person and I’m really trying to follow along here. This discussion has become so convoluted that I’m not confident that I know who’s said what and exactly what point they’re trying to make :smack:

I appreciate everyone’s thoughtful input, but now I’m left with the same feeling that I expressed earlier (or was it in the “Do you have white friends?” thread?); ethnicity is not something that can be discussed here. Possibly not anywhere. It seems that no question is acceptable, unless expressed in some preapproved manner. One should never notice, much less voice the differences they observe in peoples from a different ethnic group. My mind will remain open in order to try and absorb what’s being conveyed here, but I fear that it’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t conversation. Cheers to all who have been more articulate than I have.

103

Did anything I say suggest that? Or are you just trying your hardest to imply that anyone who disagrees with you must be doing so because they’re racist?

You’ll have to find a more thorough discussion of AAVE if you wish to know the details of it. Look for the work of Bill Labov; he’s a linguist who has made a career in English dialectology and he’s particularly well-known for his work on AAVE.

You don’t seem to have internalized anything I’ve said so far, which is probably related to your frantic efforts to prove that I’m racist. So you tell me: since you don’t have a problem with any of the other things I said about different cultures - that is, you don’t seem to believe that every culture is precisely identical - why is African-American culture so impoverished in comparison to other cultures? Why does African-American culture - accepting this phrase for the purposes of discussion - lack any cultural distinctiveness whatsoever? Because that’s your point, in a nutshell - it’s impossible to determine any particular cultural trait shared by African-Americans, because they’re all beautiful and unique snowflakes that have nothing in common whatsoever.

Please make time, in your answer, to explain why you don’t protest the similar characterization of, say, Cantonese. Note that while they speak the Cantonese language, it is also not completely uniform (which is the case with any language or variety). Why is it acceptable to note that some cultural features unite other cultures? Why, despite the unique history of African-Americans, do they have an identical culture - in your argument - to that of all other Americans? Some have argued that dark-skinned people are inherently incapable of creating or advancing culture; I don’t share that view, and, in fact, I think it’s rather racist. Is that your view? Are African-Americans completely dependent on white Americans for all aspects of their culture? To what, then, do you attribute this unique - given your acceptance of other cultural “stereotypes” - inability on the part of African-Americans to create a distinctive culture?

You are firmly in the grip of an ideology - and one that is not even internally consistent. You might want to consider toning down the absurd implications you’re leveling at others and start some self-examination to figure out why exactly you have developed this ideology that casts African-Americans as, uniquely in the world, incapable of the sort of cultural innovation that even you are willing to accept in, apparently, every other group.

104

I would have to say that I agree with you. In this and the frieds thread–I don’t see a way to express dislike of a common trait without being categorized as something that I abhor and actively work against in RL. Oh well. Perhaps we are just so limited by the vehicle of a bb. It’s too bad, because, IMO, these are the very conversations that need to held.

Good point, Excalibre --I too am weary of being informed that the term black covers the globe and not America or IL in particular. No such admonition applies to the term “whites” of course, but I don’t share as much with a Russian as I do with my (black) neighbor. <sigh>

105

Funny that you say this and yet it’s discussed on a daily basis on this board. In fact we are discussing it right now, are we not?

I have no idea why you are saying this. Honestly. It would seem you are saying that people are trying to censor you, but I’m not seeing it. You’ve expressed some thoughts and others have expressed thoughts. What is the problem?

106

I was the one who posted the bit about we were taught how to act in public. And we were. I am not sure of your point here–plenty of other races know “how to act in public”. And thank goodness otherwise we wouldn’t be able to hear ourselves think. I just want to reiterate that I have seen loud obnoxious behavior in public from all genders, race, and ages. To me, it’s a difference between people (civilized) and people (trashy). Just sayin’.

107

My point in a nutshell and I’ll keep harping on it until you internalize it, is that just because two black guys are shouting at each other on train, doesn’t mean that shouting at each other on a train is part of black culture. What it does mean is you have to guys who happen to be black, shouting at each other on train.

I don’t believe you’re playing the race card! Well, I guess that’s different than calling me PC. The other things you mentioned about other cultures was treating them as individuals, not whites. I’ve never said or implied that different cultures exist, just that observation isn’t enough to lump groups of people together based solely on the color of their skin.

Now, nad you said, “I saw two white guys arguing, they must have been Eastern Jews, because in my experience only Eastern Jews argue that way, unlike other white people; why are they different from other white people?” you and I would be having this same discussion.

My point isn’t that there isn’t an African-American culture. My point is you can’t infer any behaviour that you witness is a part of that culture, just because the people you see doing it are black. As noted that’s confirmation bias, not racism. That’s what I’m accusing you and the majority of people in this thread who take their limited exposure to a group of people and assume that there’s some sort of ‘cultural’ reason for it, because they haven’t noticed other people doing it.

Huh? I never made that argument, you are way off and I suggest step back at sec. What I did say, is that you can’t assume that two black guys shouting on a train are doing so, simply because they’re black and AAVE exists, that’s not enough to tie the two together and infer behaviour is because of that culture…especially in a country as large and diverse as the US.

Still had you said to me, “I saw two Asian guys on a train, shouting at each other and based on my experience the only people I see do that were cantonese (assuming you don’t speak catonese), so they must be catonese and therefor there’s something about the catonese that’s different from other people.” You and I would be having this same conversation.

Do I have an ideology, yes I do. That African-Americans should be treated like all other hypenated Americans. That I doubt anyone would look at two white guys, arguing and then say, " I noticed those two guys waving their hands, since I’ve seen Eastern Jews, some Italians and even a Cantonese or two argue, they must be representive of one of those culture. Why are they different from other white people?" and not get called on it. Yet that’s exactly how this thread treats African-Americans or “blacks”.

Furhter I think you’re projecting. I said nor suggested that African-Americans are incapable of anything. I simply suggest that just because AAVE exists, it is not proof that two black guys shouting at each other on a train or speaking loudly, equates that they do so based on a shared culture, unique to them and not white people.

I see nothing that I’ve written that suggests that I believe what you attribute to me concerning African-Americans. Still this is an imperfect medium and perhaps I missed it. So if you or anyone can quote me, I’ll clarify.

108

Should be:

I don’t believe you’re playing the race card! Well, I guess that’s different than calling me PC. The other things you mentioned about other cultures was treating them as individuals, not whites. I’ve never said or implied that different cultures don’t exist, just that observation isn’t enough to lump groups of people together based solely on the color of their skin.

109

Apologies everyone, I didn’t want to hijack the thread and turn it into one of those battling keys kind of thing, which is of course what I ended up doing. I wanted to keep it light, so I’ll give Excalibre the respect of a response if he/she wants, then I’m gonna bail.

peace.

110

You questioned, as part of your point, the existence of any sort of African-American culture. You’ve done it in several of your posts. Reexamine them. You’ve argued it quite steadily - that was the only possible conclusion, after all, of your continued attempts to prove that not all African-Americans are the same. You wouldn’t be making such an obvious point except as an attempt to refute my suggestion that some characteristics of African-American culture differ from that of white Americans. Your argument necessarily entails that African-Americans don’t have their own separate culture to any degree - something that would, on the surface, seem ridiculous, given the particular and unique shared history of African-American people. If they entirely lack a separate culture - the point you’ve been strenuously arguing - then that has to reflect some basic deficiency on the part of African-Americans. Whereas if they do have some particular cultural features that tend to be shared among African-Americans, it’s possible that general standards for how loud people can be in public might differ - as they obviously do in many cultures.

111

Weeeelllllllll. . . the thing is, I don’t know that it* is * actually “discussed” daily, or even right now. I see people quibbling about terminology and others falling all over themselves to make sure that “they” aren’t being “racist” (where does the line form to cite how many friends one has from a different culture than their own?) I don’t really see where anyone is offering any new information.

I’m saying this because no matter what angle one takes, it would appear that anything, anyone * says concerning race is an immediate invitation to a pile-on.
I don’t feel people are trying to censor me*. As if they could!:slight_smile: I know that I am welcome to posit any question or observation that pops into my head. I also feel that no matter what it is, it will be met with an explanation of how I phrased it incorrectly, how erroneous my observation is, how offensive I’m being, how I’m not taking this, that and the other into account, ad nauseum, yada yada yada. . .

Everyone talks about how they want to build a bridge of understanding and respect. I’m getting to the point where I have to call bullshit. If it’s more important to parse every statement or question posed, then I’ll remain (sadly) in my cone of silence.

I’m an intelligent and usually articulate person, but I have no interest in debate. That, in my opinion, is just a verbal jerk-off and neither interesting nor an advancement in the “fight against ignorance”.

112

And that’s your perrogative, man.

Just realize that you can talk about race and ethnicity. You just can’t talk about it and expect no one to speak up when they see something they disagree with.

113

OKay just for the record, I am a young white female, and I play all my music in my car loud. Whether it be Norah Jones, Buckcherry or Dem Franchize Boyz. I love to feel the bass, and I like my music loud. I don’t care about looking cool.

114

Excalibre You are not reading what I write, but want you want to see. I’ll clarify. Please note, my opinion is based on this thread and this thread only.

I questioned and still question whether or not two guys sitting across from each other and shouting, are doing it because they’re black and not white. That doesn’t mean or imply that there’s no African-American culture, I’ve said this several times, yet you refuse to accept that I believe there is one. I don’t however believe humming, singing, not making noise complaints are what sets it apart from other cultures.

  1. We see blacks sit on across each other on trains and shout at each other.
  2. We hear people humming or singing and 100% of the time they are black.
  3. We have complaints of noise, but none of those complains are from blacks.

The conclusion is the things WE observe are proof of or caused by the black culture, because WE have not observed any other group do these things. The problem is of course other groups do these things, or do you believe that only African-Americans do them?

You pointed out that as there’s an AAVE, that means that the things we observe may be explained as traits that are cultural based, as AAVE is; shared and unique to the black experience. Yes?

I, that’s me, say that because all blacks don’t speak AAVE, you can’t use that to prove anything, except that some blacks speak AAVE and have a cultural tie to it. Others have ties to other things, same as any other ethnic group, acknowlegding that doesn’t erase the African-American culture from existence.

If I was to say that all Irish aren’t Catholic, would you accuse me of denying the existence of Irish Culture? If I said that all Italians are different and not like those on HBO, in a thread asking why Italian-Americans are different from other white folk; would you accuse me of trying point out, “deficiency” on the part of Italian-Americans? I don’t think so.

So why do you accuse me of doing so with the African-American? Especially in thread who premise is that all blacks have less sensitive hearing; what’s wrong with pointing out that all blacks aren’t the same and you can’t infer anything about blacks from what your co-workers and friends tell you?

Yes I don’t believe you can use AAVE that lots of people don’t speak, to support the theory that the reason that blacks, hum, sing, don’t make noise complains and speak loudly to each other is because they’re black and that’s the way they are; cause it’s like their culture, because some speak AAVE.

That doesn’t mean, nor have I implied that there is no African-American culture, that is your projection upon me.

Nor I have said that some characteristics aren’t different between cultures, what I have questioned is that the traits noted inthis thread, humming, singing, speaking loudly, not complaining etc… is part of the tendancy to take anything that we may not do or approve of and use that to draw a line between the two groups.

Do you believe the line of distinction between the two cultures should be humming? Should be how many complaints friends of friends believe that blacks make? I don’t.

But that’s me.

ExcalibreI don’t understand, why you don’t see the point I’m trying to make; it must be me. As we’ve been doing this a bit, I think it’s clear we’re talking past each other. I can’t see where you’re getting I’m questioning the existence of African-American culture, out of my posts.

It’s that time…

115

I’d also argue that most of us just don’t have much experience in navigating discussions around race and ethnicity. People of color in the US, by nature of existing in an environment that treats them differently because of their phenotypic traits (and almost always in a negative way), often have more “miles logged” in these kinds of conversations. Doesn’t mean they’re more correct, just they tend to have more experience.

I would hope if my thoughts or opinions as voiced on this board are confusing, or might be construed as hurtful to someone that it might be pointed out to me. And I’d prefer it to be done in a supportive way, but I’m not above a clip 'round the earhole if I’ve caused offense or harm by being clumsy or intellectually lazy. And as many posters have noted, this OP at best is responsible for both of these traits… I’m not one to level the R-word at people based on one incident but others may not be as forgiving. Which is a good reason to take care and use one’s God-given intelligence to frame questions in a way that will provide answers rather than provoke questions about the intent, etc. of the question to begin with.

Granted, on an anonymous internet message board where we can’t see each other and observe nonverbals, etc. it is a little more difficult to get at the nuances of communication. And we all bring baggage from our previous experiences as we discuss sensitive topics. I for one have been embarrassed in real life from asking questions, using archaic or out-of-date terms, and so forth… who hasn’t? I think a lot of meaningful discussions are prevented because we’re all not very experienced in these situations. This lack of experience should encourage us to take risks and to also be accountable when we’ve slighted someone…

Not even sure if I’m making sense anymore, but this is what I do for a living, more or less. And the one thing I tell my students is that no-one gets immunity from embarrassment, illogic, and latent prejudice… we all have it. So knowing that, we still need to soldier on and resolve to be lifelong learners. The posters who hop in with one smart-assed comment aren’t adding much to the conversation, but those who make an attempt to clarify, refine, or even alter their perspectives will benefit. I’ve appreciated the folks who have kept this thread going in an effort to fight ignorance.

116

Um.

W.o.w.

My purpose of the thread was to discuss why I observe whites as more noise sensitive than blacks. It was not a veiled insult or stereotype that black people must be LOUD. I percieve whites and blacks as equally noisy. But, when it comes to noise complaints, it’s usually from whites.

117

Yeah, that’s what I got out of your OP. I was surprised to see so many responses focusing on the idea that blacks are loud. Outside of the “talking in a movie theater” cliche, I was unaware of a generalized “blacks are loud” stereotype.

My immediate thought was that blacks in the US have an internalized distrust of authority. Someone upthread mentioned that rice consumption could be measured with statistics, while “noise sensitivity” could not. I call bullshit on that; in theory one could tally up all noise complaints phoned in to the police. I would wager that blacks would be under-represented in those hypothetical statistics.

And there’s no way to convince me that it has anything to do with “sensitivity” to noise. It’s about the cutoff point of how annoying something has to be before you make an appeal to authority to remedy the situation. I think that bar is much lower for whites than it is for blacks.

No, you guys have it all wrong. It’s because the whites have jobs, so they have to get up for work in the morning.

118

#1. Well, then you’d be measuring the ratio of one race to another re: complaining. Not noise sensitivity. And there would be many other factors involved in that. Example, what neighborhood are you measuring, and in what country? What is the ratio of black people to white people in this area?

#2. Unless you can somehow gauge noise sensitivity --as in, how each person registers noise, I don’t think you could get reliable statistics. I stand by my original statement.

119

The U.S. Census data differentiates disabilities by race, but doesn’t distinguish between various sensory disabilities (blindness and deafness, for instance).

U.S. Census stuff.

120

Exactly my point. I think “noise sensitivity” was simply a poor wording choice in the OP that everybody latched onto.

It seems pretty clear to me that the OP is asking why whites are more likely to be the ones complaining about noise; especially with the clarification posted. Statistics could bear out the veracity of that claim.