Why are Marines (US) not "soldiers"?

That’s one of my favorite lines about the Coast Guard. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Homer Simpson, after being rescued at sea: “I’ll never make fun of the Coast Guard again. You Navy rejects are all right!”

Puddle Pirates

I don’t know what point you’re trying to make. Marines are, as a matter of fact, not a part of anyone’s army. So what exception do you think Marines are being given? The Marine Corps is not the Army. The Navy is not the Army. The Air Force… is not the Army (though it was in living memory).

You might talk in terms of how many “soldiers” China might need to take Taiwan, using “soldiers” as a shorthand for all members of the military, but I never would.

Would you call members of a nation’s Navy “soldiers” as well?

I’d provide the Straight Dope, but you can’t handle the truth!

It’s not The (United States) Army (capital A), but it is an army (small a). Armies have been given all sorts of names throughout history. This one is called “the Marine Corps”.

Personally, yes, but that’s not a battle I could hope to win just yet.

(In the IDF, which is a unified service, people serving in the Navy are, in fact, referred to as “soldiers”; “sailor” is an MOS. My brother was Naval Intelligence and never served on a ship - nobody would ever call him a sailor).

As was pointed out by Barry Goldwater, among others, we’ve got an army that has its own navy and air force, a navy with its own army and air force, a marine corps with its own air force, and an air force with its own army.

And as weird as those blue USAF tanks looked in the Burt Lancaster movie Twilight’s Last Gleaming, the Luftwaffe did have a panzer division, mostly due to Herman Goering flexing the same sort of egotism that made Goldwater suspicious

Honestly, it was often a tossup. For the Marines in Vietnam, they could be (and most often were) choppered in without need of a landing strip. Seabees (not CBs; more on that in a second) are not normally combat troops, although we went through the training for defensive combat and every battalion has a full compliment of arms up to and including machine guns and recoilless rifles. Or at least they did when I served. Quite often, Seabees came into an area and built the infrastructure for what would become a permanent camp or base. In WWII, they were often first on the site to build airfields and roads, and they defended what they built until the Marines or Army arrived.

Despite the friendly rivalry, the Seabees and the Marines have always had an historically close relationship.

Now, as for CB: an NMCB is a Naval Mobile Construction Battalion. Seabee is a phonetic rendition of the “CB” part of that. The Seabee logo was created by a clerk at the base in Rhode Island. There are also ACBs (Amphibious Construction Battalion) and CBUs (Construction Battalion Unit).

No it’s not. It’s a marine corps (small m, small c).

Robert Graves once observed an Egyptian private make a mistake on the parade ground, at which his sergeant grabbed his jaw open and spit into his mouth. That was the culture of the armies that the IDF formed their unique methods and defeated again and again.

However, Israel is not a maritime empire, and for reasons both political and logistical, a marine corps is essential for that purpose. Both operationally and culturally. Not that other nations didn’t care: the South Vietnamese had a marine corps, but that was mostly just to emulate the hoo-rah USMC. The French, pragmatic as always, divided their marines between their army and navy. And as mentioned, the USMC was often proposed to be blended into the army as an amphibious assault specialty, an idea first floated by Andrew Jackson.

But marine officers don’t want to be army officers. The navy tradition of an independent commander on the scene of action appeals too strongly. Legendary Marines like Littleton Waller and “Handsome Jack” Myers display that quality. When John Lejune faced down a Colombian force on his own initiative, it meant the US would build the Panama Canal. Of course that was an imperialist crime, but an army officer looking over his shoulder would never have changed history like that. In fact, if Custer hadn’t been so keen to be a cavalryman, he’d have become a great Marine instead of a dead soldier.

While “corps” can refer to a division of an army, the USMC is obviously not a division of the US Army. Nor is it a division of any other army. So, the question arises, is it an army all on its own, despite not having the word “army” it its title? And the answer, by reference to a dictionary, would seem to be “yes” (“an organized body of soldiers trained and equipped to fight on land”; OED). The OED also notes than an army is “typically subdivided into a number of military units as regiments and battalions, each under its own officer, with the whole body being under the direction of an overall commander”. So the USMC would seem to qualify.

Except it contains no soldiers. So it does not qualify.

You can and probably should consider it a combat special forces unit of the Department of the Navy. They’re both under the United States Secretary of the Navy.

There are only two sexes in Trump’s military.

Seriously, no group gender-neutral name?

And seriously again, members of the Air Force are called airmen, not airmen and airwomen? What year is this?

Which is why Space Force is to be commended for choosing the neutral title “Guardian” for its members, even as they came out of the Air Force.

No, it’s more like someone on the Red Sox not wanting to be called a Yankee. They’re both baseball players, but one is a Yankee and one is a Red Sox. A Soldier doesn’t want to be called a Marine anymore than a Marine wants to be called a Soldier. Even though they are both servicemembers, they are members of different organizations. Actually, more analogous to calling a Yankee a Cowboy. They’re both professional athletes, but they play completely different games.

OP, would you call a fighter pilot a soldier? Would you call someone in the Army a sailor? There are plenty of boats in the Army. I don’t think any of their operators call themselves sailors.

Yes, and you wouldn’t call tuna a chicken, but it’s okay to call it “Chicken of the Sea”.

Oh god, really?

Googles it.

Wow. That’s… I don’t even know what to say. It’s comically stupid.

It’s not an army; it’s an expeditionary force. Only part of it is an army. Another part of it is an air force. One larger than the air force of most nations. Marines always deploy as an air-ground task force, from a battalion sized Marine Expeditionary Unit to a division sized Marine Expeditionary Force. All sizes of which are capable of being deployed to theater with both the land and air components carried aboard Navy amphibious warfare ships, forcibly landing to secure a beachhead if necessary.

You can debate the necessity of a separate service in order to accomplish these tasks, or even how necessary these tasks are in the modern world. But simply referring to the US Marine Corps as nothing but an army is flatly wrong.

As memorialized in the 3rd Infantry Division’s (official? unofficial?) song, which opens “I wouldn’t give a bean to be a fancy pants Marine!”

Prominently featured in To Hell and Back, in which Audie Murphy (who served in the 3rd division during WWII) plays himself showing his path from Texas farm boy to Medal of Honor winner (but mostly leaving out the PTSD—mostly).