Why are people involved in Multi-Level Marketing so cult-like?

In My Humble Opinion
21

Ah … this brings back bad memories … Back in my more naive days my then S.O. and I got into an MLM business. This was New Image in New Zealand. From the website it looks like they’re still going strong. Like Amway, I think some of their products are okay but overpriced. I still remember the hot summer evening when we were sitting on the deck and our friend Roy unexpected showed up with “very exciting news”.

We didn’t last long but yes, it was certainly cult like. Everyone was outwardly extremely positive but most people weren’t doing much better than we were. I’m embarrassed :o to admit that we paid $5000 NZD to buy in at a “management” level. I only blame ourselves for being talked into it but there were some deceptive practices. I clearly remember presentations where people with little money or income were being urged to max out their credit cards to get in because it was such a great opportunity. Some of the statistics quoted were, at best, stretching the facts. I feel relieved now that we didn’t have much “luck” with our friends.

Of course the thing that was dangling in front of us all the time was that undoubtedly, a few people were making lots of money. One woman didn’t do much but managed to signup one guy who became a superstar in the business and she lived very well on her share of commissions from his sales for a long time. At least that’s the story. It probably has some truth. At the end of the day I guess I have to admit that sales really isn’t my thing.

After swearing to never do MLM again I did get involved in another a few years later selling long distance phone (callback) services. There was no significant investment to get started and it was a useful product at the time in NZ. I made a bit of money but hardly worth the effort. The number of distributors exploded exponentially which is to be expected but the company was badly run and simply couldn’t cope and pretty much fell apart.

I knew someone who got into Amway in a big way. He says they would have team meetings at 3 am. They would be expected to show up wearing a suit to show commitment. From what I’ve read it seems that the real winners in Amway are those selling the seminars and motivation tapes etc. The other products are almost just a byproduct of all that.

I suspect the best way to win at MLM is to start your own so you really are “in at the ground floor”. :slight_smile:

22

It would be fascinating to see what percentage of these MLM’s revenue come from sales of such training aids and motivational products, compared to actual product, and whether up-chain recruiters get a cut of such sales.

I was approached out of engineering school by the water filter people. They were deceitful from the start, framing it as a job interview. I got into an argument about whether there was such a thing as " hexagonal" and ’ octagonal" water molecular structure. Their pitch was that one was better, and their filters converted the water to that form. Even stupider than the magnet on the water pipe!

23

Indeed. Too bad those figures will never, ever be published.

24

Ah yes. The wife was part of a MLM group before she was the wife. World Leadership Group. One of Primerica’s competitors. Looks like they’re no longer around.

We lived together at the time, so I was pressured every day to join. One of the things they told their “associates” is that you will never succeed unless your significant other is also in the business, because you have to go to conventions, have to spend a lot of time making sales away from home, and they just won’t understand what you do.

I really, really didn’t want to join. I could see the lobotomized smiles when she dragged me to the meetings. I could see how shaky the product was. I can’t tell you how many times I heard them describe how sensible these adjustable-rate mortgages are! Especially these option ARMs where YOU can choose how much you want to pay each month! WOW!

By the way, the sister who brought the future-wife into the business had three houses at one time. Care to guess how many she has now?

FInally I said “FINE! I’ll join the stupid cult-- I mean, company. I’ll pony up the $125 just to make you happy.” I never had any intention of actually selling anything. I joined to support her. Because if you don’t make a 100 percent effort, you’re not supporting her and her dreams. What’s that dream again baby? You want to own 10 houses? That doesn’t sound like a whole lot of fun to me.

The first thing they make you do is write down a list of everybody you know. And then you call them to share the WONDERFUL news with them. I think I made one call with my “trainer” watching, then told him I would make the rest at home. I tore up my list as I left the building.

That is the entry into the cult, right there. That’s not about recruiting anybody. That’s about cutting off your ties with the real world. With that move, you either bring your friends and acquaintances into the company (very rarely) or you annoy the hell out of them. The whole point is that you alienate everyone who has any sense about them. It’s like when folks give all their shit to the church of scientology. You’re in. No turning back.

When you get inside and they start giving you the real information, what to say when you’re cold-calling, telling acquaintances, recruiting, recruiting, recruiti-- hey, aren’t you guys supposed to be selling something? There’s a whole lot of folks in this company, and not a whole lot of product being moved. How’s that? “We have a great payment structure!” Yeah.

The fun part is when you get this inside info, and then you say, “No thanks, I’m not really into manipulating people.” Then watch their face get all distorted as they try to come up with ways that it’s so NOT manipulating sheep-- I mean people.

25

I signed up for a jewelry company as an independant sales person. It was only $150, and I got about $1600 (MSRP) worth of jewelry, and I made 30% of retail sales, so I figured why not?

It was not a MLM - you were encouraged to recruit new sales people, but it was not required, and you wouldn’t get a bump in commission until you got several people to join. It was just a home party business, like Tupperware.

However, there was a cult-like atmosphere around it. I think motivational stuff can be great, so the conferences and meetings were fine for me. My problem was all of the “Suzy Sunshine” hype that was spread by the sales people themselves. I once posted something about a problem getting party information I needed to a different message board, and referred to my “stupid” hostesses in a general way. You would not believe the flaming I got for that - even though most hostesses acted like idiots to most of the sales people, I was ripped for saying that, and told that it was my problem for being so bitchy, and that I should give it up, since I was obviously not suited for it. Okay guys - I’m not suited for dealing with idiots. Fine. I also got into an argument with my manager about a blatant lie she was telling re: start up requirements.

What got to me was that dissent or even moderate discouragement was never, ever allowed. I work in a law firm, and if we get some idiot client, it’s standard to be totally polite and professional with the client, and then complain about them after they left. That kind of honesty is not allowed in this biz…

26

I ran a system test project once in Reston, VA, one of my testers was into Amway but was always complaining that he just wasn’t making it big. His solution was to quit his job so he could concentrate full-time on getting rich. Hope he made it.

27

I have a funny Amway story. Our company was doing a job for a company in Korea. As part of the design phase, we had five or six people come from Korea to have meetings with us (we’re located in south western Ontario). The last day they were here we wrapped up around noon, and a couple of our sales guys offered to take them sight seeing for the rest of the day. This is their first visit to Canada - did they want to go to Niagara Falls, or see the CN Tower? Nope, they wanted to go to London, Ontario, and visit the Amway warehouse. I don’t know if the rest of Korea is big on Amway, but these guys sure were.

28

Several years ago, we were invited by friends to a meeting to hear about a “fantastic business opportunity”. I immediatley smelled MLM and and delined the invitation, perhaps with a bit too much vitriol. My friend was a obviously hurt and I felt rather guilty so we ended up going anyway. :smack:

It was all about Melaluca. We couldn’t get away fast enough.

29

I worked for a dot com consulting firm back in the 90s (nothing to do with MLM). It was totally cult-like in a Good to Great / Built to Last sort of way. In the three week “bootcamp” orientation, we had to put together a powerpoint deck with a Letterman style Top 10 list on why we liked working there (after a week). So my partner (one of the new corporate counsels) and I threw in some jokes like “it’s a great place to be yourself…provided you are just like the rest of us” and “because I like the taste of grape Kool-aid” (a not so subtle reference to the corporate color and the Jonestown cult suicides). Well the trainer was horrified. I thought she was going to snatch us up for “reconditioning” or something. Anyone who can’t laugh at the idiocy of what they do for a living scares me.
As for the MLM crap, I’m sure it’s like any sales job. As long as it’s a legit product, you can probably make a living if you work hard enough at it. But like any real sales job, you have to bust your ass.

Isn’t the Girl Scouts just a big MLM organization designed to sell those cookies?

30

Melaluca? The Tree?

31

Haha. The only problem with that analogy is that there is only one level in the Girl Scouts. All of the troops report to one entity.

I’ve told the story here before about a couple who are now former good friends who were sucked into Quixtar which is what Amway called themselves when they went on-line in the 90’s. They aren’t stupid but are very naive. I’m not going to go through the whole story again but I will relate on trick that is used to get people to join up.

New recruits are tasked with calling every friend, colleague and relative they can muster to get them to listen to their pitch. If the friend turns them down a couple of times they’ll try a new approach. They’ll call and say, “I know that you’re not interested in our new home business and we respect that. We’re new at this though and we’re struggling and we’d really appreciate it if we could practice our pitch on you and then you can critique it.”

The question in the OP has already been answered pretty well. The cult like approach is what is most successful in selling the product. By most successful, I mean most successful to the corporation at the very top.

32

Yeah…I think they are still around. Most of the products were supposed to be fortified or infused or otherwise tainted with this “miracle” tea-tree" oil.

33

Cookie sales are just a few weeks a year. Theoretically you don’t have even have to sell cookies. You can apply to the local council to do other fundraisers or you can just do activities that don’t require a lot of cash. They push the cookie sales plenty hard, partly as “leadership opportunity,” but the troops do get a return on every box they sell and people do actually look forward to buying them. (I’m not sure why. They’re just cookies.)

(I’m not really defending them. I generally avoid children’s fundraisers where the kids don’t get all the money, but there is a lot more to Girl Scouts than cookies.)

ETA: I guess that was a joke, but reading the materials that come in the cookie sales packet can make you a bit twitchy about the underlying motives.

34

Down here in S. Florida, Melaleuca trees are despised as an invasive exotic species gone rampant. Such a company name would not be a good idea in this area.

35

I remember being unemployed in 2001 following the crash of the dot coms and Primerica called me for an interview. Like an idiot I went. The guy who interviewed me was maybe 17 and though wearing a suit, he looked and talked more like a checker at Wallmart than an upwardly mobile executive. I meanwhile had an MBA, and quickly figured out that Eminen Jr. here who was interviewing me and would be “my boss” in this exciting opportunity was clearly full of shit. I said thanks but no thanks and left.

I wonder if this cult extends to so called ‘career coaches’ and ‘professional recruiting agencies’ that claim they have access to the ‘hidden job market’ out there. That’s right, for an upfront fee and monthly retainer, they will circulate your resume for you to all the great hidden jobs they have access to! You see, headhunters charge a fee, which turns off many employers, but since we rip off…er rather…charge the candidate, employers really like working with us! When I pointed out that they actually had an incentive to throw my resume away and just lie to me periodically that they were sending it around, they actually threw me out their office. Their come on was a videotape of all kinds of people in suits who claimed they had gotten amazing jobs through the agency. We had three such turd companies here in San Diego…Avery-Bennett, Chessman, and Careers 2000.

36

I once got a call from an agency who claimed that. They asked for an upfront fee.

I asked, “Isn’t that illegal?” (Under New York State law, it is – the agency can’t charge you until after they place you in a job.)

They mumbled something about how they’re not really an employment agency (though under NYS law, they were claiming to be) and hung up.

37

I thought I’ve told this story before here but I’ll be danged if I can find it.

Background
In the early 80’s, when Michigan’s economy was in the crapper ( hey, just like it is now.) My inlaws were on the verge of losing their house. The found Amway, got involved with it and through hustle and hardwork, were able to keep things together until my FIL’s business (brick masonry) picked up. Earned enough money to even get a cadillac. By the time I met them in the late 80’s, they weren’t as active.

They are still Distributors today, but only so they can get the deals on the few things they really like.

You.do.not.besmirch.the.name.of.Amway at their house.

Holy crap, it is the first Sin thou must not commit. The second is don’t go into the Frig without asking too. been married 15 years. Gotta ask to raid the frig.

My husband, who is the most level headed- nee frankenstein- kinda guy I know, gets very defensive about Amway is a Pyramid Scam talk too.
Story One

When we were dating, Mr. Ujest told me how he was over on that side of Michigan where Amway was based out of. Grand Rapids areaish. He (and a buddy.) went to the headquarters and in a room there was a hanging portrait of the founders of Amway.

With kneelers in front of the pictures.

“So you can pray to them.” says the future father of my children in such an earnest tone.

I looked at him like :dubious: and said something like, " Hey, I heard you can do the similar thing at Disney*. Kneel and pray in front of pictures of Walt."

He looked at me like :dubious:, " Why would anyone pray to Walt Disney?"

“Why would anyone pray to a DeVos?”

*It could have been Disney as an example. Mighta been Henry Ford . Doesn’t matter. It was just so stupid.

Amway Grand Hotel in Grand Rapids, however, is suppose to be very nice.

Second Story A few years later, before we are engaged.

We were eating at a restaurant with Mr. Ujest’s BFF. His homies. The Original Homies. And storytelling started. ALOT of story telling and Mr. Ujest had taken this time to monopolize all the oxygen to hear himself speak. He is much better now.

His friends, having been down this dusty road before, had all slumped into
a kinda-listening-sorta-stupor moment. As one story that didn’t finish bled into the next, I interupted him very rudely, " What does THIS new story have to do with THAT one you never finished!!!" I had heard all the stories by this time and was up to HERE with story telling.

He politely informed me that what I just did was rude. His BFF’s suddenly perked up at this and were interested in a decent show before their eyes. We vollied back and forth regarding incessant story telling vs. Rudeness. Somehow my being rude and stopping the story telling was greater than his insufferable, unending storytelling. Naturally, I disagreed. His friends turned into Switzerland, the bastards.

I was going to lose because Mr. Ujest is the most infuriatingly patient man in an argument and I don’t care who you are, you could be GHANDI, for fucksake, and he will win against GHANDI because he has this knack for turning the conversation into discussing (in the nicest terms possible) against *you *and somehow it is all about your character faults. In the nicest way. Where you will end up feeling guilty about being born. ( It’s taken me nearly 20 years to fully grasp this. The bastard! He would have made an excellent nun.

So, realizing that I am going to lose. If you cannot win, heckle your opponent.
I just dropped THE CONVERSATIONAL A BOMB . Lobbed it right in, completely unrelated to the entire conversation.

“Amway is a pyramid scheme.”
In all my years of knowing him, it is the only time I have ever seen Mr. Ujest fully lose his temper. “IT.IS.NOT!”
(His BFF just about fell off their chairs in laughter over my tactic and I sat there gleefully smiling at my victory over a successful heckle.)

And, to this day, if I want to really irritate him for being so irritating, I just throw that line at him. The effect is not as strong. I usually get a testosterone grunt out of him, but I could use flow charts to show him what a pile of rubbish Amway is, and he still is that faithful to it.
Story Three

Dick DeVos, republican (head of Amway) ran against Jennifer Granholm (democratic.) for being the Govenor of the state of Michigan.

Mr. Ujest would edumacate me on what the opponents stood for. I care zero about politics, he cares deeply about it all because he thinks his vote matters.

His line of thinking was DeVos is a businessman and he will run the state like a business, bringing in Money and such. He is a millionaire several times over.

Granholm is a Democrat and a lawyer and therefore will just fling money wildly into the wind.

We had a tense minute argument over the matter. While watching the Governor’s debate. DeVos was very wooden. Very flat. You could see his entire life was spent being in the board room being listen too because he held the purse strings.

Granholm was a prosecuting attorney and knew how to actually talk. Came across very personably and intelligent. She also dropped in little bon mots into her part about Amway, which was wonderfully delicious.

Somehow our very tiny argument over the matter came about with my husband saying something like, " But he knows how to run a bajillion dollar company!"

I retorted, " That he INHERITED from his DADDY! Granholm had to crawl through the mire to get to top."

I didn’t vote for either due to I hate Amway and I cannot stand lawyers.
Those are my Amway stories.

38

Avon does have an MLM arm, but it isn’t the primary focus of the company. You can be an Avon rep and never recruit anyone and still make 50% commission if your sales are high enough.

39

Hey, you’re friends with Jim, too, huh? I’m seriously considering de-friending him. The weird thing is the replies from all his zombie friends. Oh, and his wacky plaid suit jacket in his profile photo. I liked him much better in 9th grade when he sat next to me in science class and was obsessed with Greg LeMond.

40

I was in Amway for, not one, but two years in the very early 1980s. I liked the products but once I left, no one who was in my group ever tried to see me the products, NOR did they ever try to talk me into staying (I think a lot of them got out soon after).

I’ve been approached by other two people over the past 20 years trying to recruit me into Amway marketing. No one, including them, has ever tried to sell me Amway products. If someone did, I might buy them. If someone tried to sell me the products w/o trying to recruit me, I might just kiss them.