Some background on this: I have been studying Wicca as a religion for over two years, I feel drawn toward its ideals and beliefs so I am trying to educate myself about this faith. I sometimes wear a penacle necklace, which is a “pentagram” inside a cirlce, this is a symbol of harmany between the spirit and the physical world and is some times used as a symbol of protection and/or faith. About a month ago, I was wearing my necklace when I man walked up to me and said: “500 years ago, you would have been burned at the stake for that.” I noted his t-shirt had the name of a local church and replyed,“500 years before that YOU would have burned for your faith.”
The 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution grants its citizen freedom of religion. The writers of this document may not have been thinking of this at the time, but this freedom includes non-Christain faiths. (I can’t get the image of a big, fat white politician saying “We must preserve the Christan ways of the native American taxpayer.” These “natives” being other WASP’s. Don’t scoff, I’ve seen this before, twice. But this belongs in the rant section) Legal stuff aside, why do people feel the need to stamp out or belittle other religions? In this age were “Diversity” is a buzz word, how come religion, faith, or even athesism is still persecuted?
Live and let live may be a great creed but there are a significant number of people in this world that don’t live their lives that way.
People are persecuted for being different, period. Race, creed, language, sexual orientation, even being from the wrong side of town is a basis for persecution. Religion, faith, and atheism is usually a emotional issue with people not a logical one. I have seen devoutly religious people being told that they would ‘go to hell’ because they did not believe in the ‘correct’ religion.
Why is religion persecuted? Short answers:
generous: They’re misunderstood.
non-generous: They’re different.
It’s a highly emotionally charged issue. It’s also one of those rare things where a good number of people tend to be raised in a single spiritual environment from day one - “born, baptized, and bred (name of a religion here)”. There’s not a huge push in churches to get out and experience a whole bunch of different religions, because they’re simply that - different. As humans, we tend to be comfy and cozy with what we know, and very wary of the unknown - in this case, a set of beliefs, a fundamentally different view of a supreme being, or even a way of life.
And when someone dares to criticize a religion, heads up. Look at how Madonna got in trouble with Pepsi for the way that people saw her approaching Catholicism in the “Like a Prayer” video.
Wyvern, I can sympathize with you. For my first job, I worked in a mom-and-pop new and used bookstore in a small rural town. We sold books on Wicca, as well as some spell books, and I cheerfully stocked them, sold them, and ordered them for customers. My mom was telling one of her friends that I worked there, and her friend’s reaction was one of abject horror. “You’re letting your daughter work there? For those type of people?” Sheesh.
Wasn’t it Gandhi who said, “If you Christians were more like your Christ, the world would be a better place”?
I like how you handled the situation Wyvern. Why do people do this? Not being one of them I don’t really know, but what I do see is a lack of respect for another. Maybe that’s what it boils down to.
What does any of this have to do with spiritual ignorance?
Personally I don’t feel the need to go out of my way to stamp out or belittle certain religions. But to be honest with you I get quite a chuckle out of a lot of religious beliefs including Wicca.
I guess some people are just terribly uptight. If it’s different, it freaks them out.
As far as “respecting religion”, I’ve read many an atheist on this board going on about how they don’t respect religion. A few characterize themselves as “evangelists” who are trying to (apparently) sway people away from religion. Hey - they can do and feel whatever they want, all I request is that they Leave Me Alone. I find unsolicited “evangelism” of any type to be very irritating.
As far as being “spiritually ignorant”, I plead guilty. I am pretty ignorant about many religions. But I think I try to not freak out about them. (Well, I may feel freaked-out internally, but I try to conceal it, anyway!)
Seems like just another example of the “us vs. them” mentality that is/may be part of human nature. Most people think their [group] is best (insert whatever religion, school, town, country, race, etc. for [group]) and will attack/harass those not in the [group].
For that matter, let’s look at your title for this thread…“why are people so spiritually ignorant?” Your use of the word ‘ignorant’ is a put-down. So, are you implying that non-spiritual people (i.e., not part of your group) are inferior? Again, us vs. them.
I can’t speak for MGibson. That being said, the chuckles I get are the “look at people believing demonstrably silly things” chuckles. I guess that can be interpreted as ‘superiority-inspired’, though I’d prefer to think of it as ‘amazed at human gullibility inspired’. These are not chuckles I do in view of anyone, as I think it is rude to openly mock someone’s beliefs - except in a forum such as this, in which you should not tread if you do not wish to have your beliefs challenged.
An example of a belief I’d chuckle at would be how some young-earth creationists come up with new and exciting theories about how the earth flooded and vapor-canopies of water above the sky, blah blah blah. If I didn’t chuckle I’d cry at the insanity of it all.
Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine…the 1st Ammendment does not “grant” any rights…it protects rights.
Nothing in there, or in any of the other first ten ammendments, about “granting” of rights. And the IXth Ammendment makes it clearer by saying “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.” It seems clear to me that this is saying that people have certain rights, and that the Constitution is only mentioning some to make perfectly clear that the government will protect and not infringe these rights. The concept is that these rights are pre-existing “natural” rights; the “certain unalienable Rights” from the Declaration of Independence.
For some reason it just irks me to hear people talk as if the government gives out rights when it is most certainly not the philosophy of the Framers.
O.k., I really opened a can of worms here. I wasn’t trying to imply that people who are not spiritual are ignorate. I was trying to express my frustration about intolerance toward different views. I was raised “Christan”, gone atheist, and come to this point in my life. Life has taught me to try to listen and learn before I assume and react, but like all people, I’m not always successful.
Hi Wyvern. I guess the simple answer is ignorance. Some people will show you wilful disrespect for your beliefs because they know no better. There are plenty of other factors that can be involved: tribal anxiety (we reject what is not us), quick ego stroke of smugness (you’re daft, I’m not), fear (whatever I don’t understand could be a threat) and so on. And don’t forget there are always some people around willing to spread this kind of ignorance, and capitalise on all these factors, to build support for their own causes.
It’s not much different from disrespect/hatred based on other, non-spiritual, factors.
There is one other point which I have occasionally tried to convey hereabouts, but never with much success. It is simply this: it is possible to respect a person, and their right to their beliefs, while still maintaining that the beliefs themselves cannot be respected (in any meaningful sense) even if you want to respect them - either because they are self-contradictory or demonstrably based on false or out-dated thinking. For example, I’m sure I could respect a member of the Flat Earth society, and his right to believe what he likes, but I’m a duck’s backside if I’m going to respect the belief itself.
As a Byzantine Catholic, I now exactly what you’re talking about. I get it from all sides. Athiest think there is something wrong with me because I believe in religion at all, fundie protestants regard me as a Pagan, Pagans are put off because they have an image of Christianity as a very harsh, judgemental and mean-spirited religion (they’ve spent too much time listening to the fundies, so I can’t say I blame them for feeling that way), and Latin Rite Catholics think the Byzantine Church is too wierd, and I get heat for not being a “traditional” Catholic. Gotta laugh at that, since the Byzantine Rite is actually twenty years older than the Latin Rite, and my congregation is about as traditional as they come.
I think your comments apply to more than just religion. Look at the racism that still exists in this country, despite the fact that we like to think of ourselves as being “enlightened” in that area. Or how people who believe in political philosophies that are not, um, mainstream, are criticized and ostracized. Hell, just having an offbeat sense of humor can get you into a lot of trouble in certain situations.There is something in human nature that equates “different” with “bad”.
I can’t figure it. I personally believe that strength lies in diversity.
Good stuff, Thea. One of the more enlightening experiences of my life was getting to be good friends with a group of people who originally came from Belgrade - a communist city. Wow… communism! - the big bad evilness itself. Well, it was quite an eye-opener to hear them talk about how much better life was back in Belgrade, and how much they missed the higher standard of living they enjoyed back there before the wars.
Of course, trying to get anyone in my country (UK) or the United States to accept their views, and not just disparage them, would be tough to say the least. But I certainly learnt more in an hour’s chat with these people than I ever did from school, university or the media.
I have to agree with the sentiments expressed by some of the other posters, (particularly Phobos and ianzin) about this aspect of human nature. It seems to me that the need of some to berate the religion of others, and indeed any difference at all, is based largely on the idea of group survival. Human beings are social animals, (I don’t thnk anyone would disagree with that), and for the longest time, and even now to a degree, the best way to ensure the survival of any particular group is to strengthen ties within the group.
Group B’s beliefs and teaching are different than Group A’s, therefore Group B is a threat to the coherency of Group A.
No doubt fear and a good lack of knowledge are also to blame, but I think they enforce the dynamic rather than create it.
It’s a shame that people can’t be tolerant of other people’s beliefs, no matter ho wfoolish they think them to be. I am respectful of others’ religious beliefs, even though i am sure that there is no God.
What I don’t get is why being “spiritual” is supposed to be always a good thing. Surely, pride, envy, and hatred are spiritual traits, yet nobody wants to cultivate them. Not everything spiritual is good.
Why do people do this? Not being one of them I don’t really know, but what I do see is a lack of respect for another. Maybe that’s what it boils down to.