Why are pro poker players allowed to wear sunglasses?

Factual Questions
21

[QUOTE=Frylock]
Who’s the someone here?

Why are you putting “pro” in scare quotes here? Doesn’t that tell against the point you’re trying to make?

This suggests an important disanalogy between poker and sports, or if “someone” prefers, poker and other sports. I’d say a distinction between senses of “pro” could be built out of the facts underlying this disanalogy.

-FrL-
[/QUOTE]

This seems like English but I can’t seem to make any sense of it.

[QUOTE=Snarky_Kong]
If my and my buddies bet to see who can orgasm the fastest I’m a pro masturbator? I’m with Otto on this.
[/QUOTE]

Never invite me to any of your parties.

[QUOTE=LSLGuy]
I suspect the OP was talking about “pro” as in “participant in sponsored big-money tournament on ESPN”, not as in “guy with day job who makes a profit some weeks down at the local Indian joint.”
[/QUOTE]

I know what the OP meant. However there is not that big a difference between the two guys you mention. One just decided to quit his day job and the other didn’t. Hopefully for his family he is good at it. Since the popularity of poker on TV it seems like there are a lot of guys out there who think they can make a living at it. A lot of them can’t. Made for TV, invite only events are a very recent development. Most of the tournaments you see on TV are still open. If you have a enough money to buy in then you can play with the guys who don’t have a day job. I can’t do that if I wanted to play on the Yankees.

The only reason why I made my comment in the first place was because I think the title was not worded as well as it could be. Instead of “Why are pro poker players allowed to wear sunglasses” it should have been “Why do casinos allow poker players to wear sunglasses”. The schlub in the sunglasses next to Fossilman might be a dentist with a buy in. The rules are not different for him. I put “pro” in quotes because there is no governing body stating who is a professional and who isn’t. If I decide tomorrow to quit my job and start playing poker full time I become a “pro”.

22

[QUOTE=Loach]
If I decide tomorrow to quit my job and start playing poker full time I become a “pro”.
[/QUOTE]

The artist author anology seems apt for this profession. You saying you are an author/artist is fine, when other people call you an author/artist/pro poker player then you probably are.

23

[QUOTE=Loach]
If I decide tomorrow to quit my job and start playing poker full time I become a “pro”.
[/QUOTE]
If you quit your job and start playing baseball, football, hockey or just about any other sport you can earn a living from, you’re a pro then too.

The only difference is that poker does not have a league and teams you have to join, any idiot with cash in his pocket, a copy of Hoyle’s, and a handy casino/internet connection can be a pro poker player.

24

Suppose I wore a burqa. Any rule against that?

25

[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
One more question about “tells”- say a pro reads another as bluffing on a hand- can good players tell to what degree the other player is bluffing as in, can they tell not only if someone is bluffing they have a great hand, but also if they have a fair hand, or nothing at all, if that makes sense. In other words, say I know from your tell you didn’t make that straight flush, but can they also tell a straight flush bluff from a flush bluff from a one pair bluff from a eight high bluff?
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Yes and no. What you’re talking about is called “putting someone on a hand.” How do you do it? Well, you look at a few things, mainly the pattern of betting compared to the cards on the board, and specific reactions to cards as they come out. All this takes into account the style of player they are.

For example, an early bet from a mid-aggressive player with two clubs on the board might indicate a semi-bluff with a flush draw, but nothing else. The same bet, same player, but from last position likely means that have nothing at all. (general example, but you get the idea)

Some players, like Daniel Negreanu, are utter wizards at this sort of thing, and love to audibly call their opponent’s hands, looking for reactions.

26

[QUOTE=Cheesesteak]
If you quit your job and start playing baseball, football, hockey or just about any other sport you can earn a living from, you’re a pro then too.

The only difference is that poker does not have a league and teams you have to join, any idiot with cash in his pocket, a copy of Hoyle’s, and a handy casino/internet connection can be a pro poker player.
[/QUOTE]

Except that the your chances of playing on the same field as Derek Jeter are nil, no matter what you call yourself.

[QUOTE=CookingWithGas]
Suppose I wore a burqa. Any rule against that?
[/QUOTE]

I prefer this.

27

[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
One more question about “tells”- say a pro reads another as bluffing on a hand- can good players tell to what degree the other player is bluffing as in, can they tell not only if somone is bluffing they have a great hand, but also if they have a fair hand, or nothing at all, if that makes sense. In other words, say I know from your tell you didn’t make that straight flush, but can they also tell a straight flush bluff from a flush bluff from a one pair bluff from a eight high bluff?
[/QUOTE]

It all depends. It’s important to remember that tells originate in the brain. If I hit a royal flush but don’t care, I’m not going to give off a tell. If I make a solid hand for a few bucks, there’s no emotion there. You can’t get anything from it.

Mike Caro wrote the Bible on poker tells, aptly naming it “Caro’s book of poker tells”. He tells us there’s 2 kinds of players with tells: Those that are unaware and actors. To be an actor, the guy must 1) Think you’re watching him, and 2) care. If I’ve been dealt a 3-6 unsuited in Hold’Em, I’ll fold my cards regardless of your action, so I won’t care if you’re watching me. So I’m not an actor. If I slump my shoulders when I’m weak, I might not think you see it (or not realize I’m doing it) so I’m not meeting #1.

Basically, for those that are unaware, find what emotion or action their tell suggests and follow along. For actors, do the opposite (weak means strong, strong means weak). That is, if someone shoves chips in the middle forcefully, and yells RAISE while staring at you, he’s acting strong when weak. Call him (or raise!).

28

I wear them so people can’t see what I’m looking at. If you want to hide your eyes during a hand, you can do this by simply looking straight down.

Most tells are given away by hand movements anyway. If I do pick up an easy one that is dead on all the time, I don’t want the other player to know what I’m watching on him as the cards hit the board.
As far as calling other players hands, it is a mixture of many things. First, what type of player is the other person? Second, how has he bet/played this hand? Third, With the cards on the board, and the cards I hold, what are his possible holdings, and what is the most likely? Probably 1/2 of the hands I actively have to make these decisions I find that I have a “gut” feeling of what he has, and when I call it and he shows, I’m right around 75% of the time. It’s not ESP, or really a gut feeling, its just your experience subconciously putting the cards that he has in your head, and you “just know”.

Usually around here, when you call an inexperienced player’s hand, you get a reaction from him that he isn’t even aware of.

Here’s an example recently- in a cash game on a casino boat here, I am in BB with AJs. Loose aggressive player in position 3 raises to 5x the BB(which means almost any A or any pocket pair 6+, or any 2 face cards, or even a suited K), I call, along with 2 others. Flop is A-10-4 rainbow. I’m about 95% sure I have the best hand and I’m first to act so I check to let the aggressive player bet into me. He bets, the other 2 fold, I reraise. He thinks for a second and reraises. Now, what possible hands does he have? He could have pocket 10s, but his typical raise pf would have been even higher. A4 is possible, but not likely. AQ is possible, but I check raised which would normally show enough strength that he just calls with AQ or AK. I keep getting stuck on A10. I ask him,“Surely you wouldn’t raise my BB from middle position with A10 would you?” His eyebrows popped up for a second, I then told him that’s kind of a donkey move and I thought he was a smarter player than that, and folded. He turned over A10.

There was no one thing that tipped me to his exact hand, it’s just that what I knew of him and how the hand was played left no other option for his holding.

29

As it stands now, a lot of the major tournaments restrict players to a single sponsor logo. You’ll see lots of people with tape on their hats covering up the extra forbidden logos.

[QUOTE=CookingWithGas]
Suppose I wore a burqa. Any rule against that?
[/QUOTE]

There’s no specific rule that says you can’t wear a burqa. But there’s no specific rule that you can’t wear an Elmo head either, but this guy was made to remove his at the WSOP last year by the tournament director. There’s no way to have a rule to address every possible situation and permutation so the general rule “what the director says goes” is always in effect.

30

[QUOTE=Otto]

There’s no specific rule that says you can’t wear a burqa. But there’s no specific rule that you can’t wear an Elmo head either, but this guy was made to remove his at the WSOP last year by the tournament director. There’s no way to have a rule to address every possible situation and permutation so the general rule “what the director says goes” is always in effect.
[/QUOTE]

Did they give a specific reason why or just because it looked stupid? Seems like a bad move on Elmo’s part. If you plan on being around for any length of time that mask is going to get pretty damn uncomfortable. They should have forced him to keep it on the whole time.

31

[QUOTE=Snarky_Kong]
If my and my buddies bet to see who can orgasm the fastest I’m a pro masturbator? I’m with Otto on this.
[/QUOTE]

You’re definitely a pro athlete. I mean look, you’re in a “masters” tournament. a “skins” game actually.
I kill myself.
Hello? … Is this thing on?

32

[QUOTE=Snarky_Kong]
If my and my buddies bet to see who can orgasm the fastest I’m a pro masturbator? I’m with Otto on this.
[/QUOTE]

I would just like to point out that, as far as I know, Snarky has never been with me while masturbating.

33

[QUOTE=Otto]
I would just like to point out that, as far as I know, Snarky has never been with me while masturbating.
[/QUOTE]

He was the guy wearing the Elmo head.

34

[QUOTE=coffeecat]
He was the guy wearing the Elmo head.
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And…scene!