Why are prohibtionary tendencies more common in Protestant areas?

Alcohol prohibition was pretty much a Protestant thing. It was strongest in the US, UK and Canada. In Canada, all provinces voted for it except Catholic-majority Quebec.

While some of it was doubtless due to an association between immigrants and alcohol, there does seem to be a trend in Protestantism of trying to use the law to prohibit people from partaking in alcohol, drugs, prostitution, fornication etc.

Why is that?
And yes, I am aware that Protestantism is quite broad and goes all the way from Unitarians to Davidians.

Because Roman Catholic clergy are merry old men who never once dreamt of using spiritual force to oppress and exploit the minds of the faithful ?

This is down to cultural differences, which are rooted in differing theological perspectives on the proper use of the power of the state and, in particular, about the extent to which state power should be used to enforce moral behaviour.

The Catholic tradition is the more liberal. In a tradition that goes back to Thomas Aquinas and, before him, to Augustine, the predominant view is that the primary purpose of state power is to preserve social order and the well-being of the community (the “common good”). On this view, things should be prohibited only if the common good requires it. The mere fact that something is itself immoral is not a sufficient reason to ban it.

The Protestant tradition owes more to Luther and Calvin, who considered that the community should be Christian, and that the state as the emanation of the community should also be Christian and should reflect Christian ethical thinking in its laws. Thus the fact that particular behaviour was evil was a good reason for banning it.

Prostitution is the classic example of how this lines of thinking work out in practice. In the view of Thomas Aquinas, prostitution was inherently damaging to the community. But he shared the prevailing opinion of his time that, sinful and harmful as it was, prostitution provided a necessary outlet for the sexual energy of men who lacked the social or financial standing to become betrothed, and the moral fibre to practice chastity. There was a large class of young or poor men who, if they could not visit prostitutes, would tend to engage in more disruptive and harmful wrongs — rapes, seductions, debauches, threats to family, property and social relationships. This was worse, in his view, than the damage which resulted from the practice of prostitution. On balance, therefore, the common good required the state to accommodate prostitution.

Augustine’s reasoning was slightly different. but he arrived at the same conclusion. Laws, he felt, will not be respected or enforced unless they enjoy at least the assent, if not the active support, of a critical mass of the community (which, he considered, a ban on prostitution would not). It is damaging to society and to the rule of law to make laws which are not going to be respected or enforced. Therefore they should not be made.

Luther’s position is an interesting contrast. He was fully aware that laws attempting to legislate personal morality could not always be enforced, but he did not see this as an objection. To his mind, if prostitution, when criminalised, went on anyway, but underground — well, at least the state would not be complicit. This was better than the state appearing to condone immorality.

Calvin was even more strongly of this view, favouring the criminalisation not only of prostitution but also of adultery.

For Luther and Calvin, in other words, unworkability or unenforceability was not an objection. It was important that the law should say the right, moral thing, even if that did not result in the right, moral thing being done.

And this is why, to this day, prostitution is more likely to be criminalised in historically protestant countries, and regulated/licensed in historically Catholic countries.

The tension between these two approaches hasn’t gone away. If we think about debates over the legalisation of cannabis or other drugs, for example, there’s a reasonable group of people who accept that criminalisation has been ineffective to control or eliminate drug use and is likely to remain ineffective, but who are still queasy at the thought of legalisation because “it sends the wrong signal”. They may not know it, but they are channelling Martin Luther.

Catholicism has plenty of faults of its own but this thread really isn’t about coming up with which one is better. They’re perfectly equal in my view even if they have different tendencies. So, let’s not turn this thread into Northern Ireland, mmkay?

Odd thing to say considering I was the one equating them in their oppressive tendencies, whereas you are the one trying to make a distinction.

Besides there was Father Mathew.

Muslim countries aside, places where alcohol is barred are generally places that have an drinking problem. The question is, then, why do Protestants drink more than Catholics?

They don’t. Have a look at this Wikipedia page ranking OECD countries by per capita alcohol consumption. Of the top 10 countries listed there, Protestantism is not the biggest religion in any of them (though it comes very close in Germany and, historically, it was the biggest religion there until recently).

And additionally, the US has historically had comparitively low alcohol consumption (and still does) yet we had national prohibition for 13 years. This theory doesn’t hold up.

Not for the first two centuries it didn’t. Most people seem to have been half cut during the 18th century, and half of them were reeling up to the Secession War.

Drinking a lot isn’t necessarily the same thing as having a drinking problem. Having a glass of wine with each meal may lead to the consumption of more alcohol than weekend binge drinking, but is less damaging to society.

Is it too simplistic to point out that Catholics have made a regular ritual out of drinking wine?

Well, the priest drinks wine. It was Protestant sects that extended the drinking of wine to the whole congregation, wasn’t it?

I think the influences of Calvinism pretty much explains it all, if a bit tersely. Only some branches of Catholicism advocate poverty and self-denial; some large portion of Protestantism is *built *on the idea of shunning earthly pleasures as sinful and degrading.

BTW, the long-form answer can be found in Daniel Okrent’s staggeringly detailed and intoxicatingly readable Last Call. One of the best histories I’ve uncorked in years.

So what about abortion? It will happen whether it’s legal or not but is less damaging when legal, and laws against it do not seem to have the popular support of a majority.

I’m pretty sure that this is wrong. Catholics drink wine along with the crackers (whatever they’re called). The Protestant church I was raised in drank grape juice with little hunks of bread.

and fittingly.

I was also thinking that Protestantism has a greater tendency toward wanting to form a perfect community that they then protect from corruption; a city upon a hill.

Catholicism is explicitly about encompassing and saving all of humanity, which requires some compromises. Catholic missionaries were known to venture into the new world and learn the local customs.
Protestants, though, seem to be much more about the saved doing their own thing to the fullest extent. So you get cellular division of people who have disagreements and each take their ball and go play among themselves. You would think that this would lead to more tolerance but it seems to lead to situations where a community considers that it is spiritually and morally pure and must remain pure of corruption/false doctrines.

You get that with the Puritans, the Mormons Utah/theodemocracy and the numerous backwoods cults that want to rule themselves only according to their own religiously-derived rules 'cuz they’re saved and they got the truth and nobody gonna tell the few righteous Lord’s saved anything 'bout anything.

Does a disproportionate amount of home schooling happen in Protestant households? Not that homeschooling is necessarily cult-ish and purist-repressive, but cult-ish and purist-repressive outlooks tend to be particularly attracted to it.

I’m one of those people who sees legalization of drugs as the right thing while at the same time supporting campaigns to discourage drug abuse. Drug regulation belongs in the home, in the church, in the community hall, and the Court of Public Opinion. Jailing potheads does nothing for us but make it harder for honest people to get jobs and provide for their families. Put some social pressure on instead. “Hey, maybe you could get promoted to foreman if you quit the wacky weed and started being more productive!”

I’m a huge fan of Okrent’s writing and *Last Call *is as good as you say. But in fairness, I also have to say that Okrent took huge chunks of the book almost directly from Dry Manhattan: Prohibition in New York City by Michael Lerner. As an academic book, it’s not as readable but it’s great source material.

Both books look at the cultural split in the U.S. that led to Prohibition. Protestants were earlier immigrants and looked down at the more recent ones, who were heavily Catholic. Those groups tended to congregate in larger cities while Protestants had spread across the rural midwest and south. We don’t appreciate today how huge a small town bias existed in American culture then. The small town was the epitome of Americana while cities were wicked, crowded, filthy, and even alien. The bar culture, heavily German and Irish, was directly linked to prostitution, spousal abuse, waste of the family money, and probably mopery. (Not to mention that those groups had been gaining political power, once the exclusive province of Protestants.) Banning drink wasn’t banning one evil; it would work to eliminate all the social problems at once.

I was going to quibble with you about Estonia, but then looked it up. They were historically Protestant (and used to be an officially Protestant country) but nowadays Lutherans are outnumbered by Orthodox Christians. More than half of Estonians, of course, profess ‘no religion’ which has to be one of the highest rates in the world.

The idea there is that abortion (unlike drinking, prostitution, ‘fornication’, etc.) is not a ‘victimless’, self-regarding sin, it involves direct harm (i.e. death) to a victim. Therefore it’s an appropriate thing for the state to forbid. Drinking alcohol may help contribute to other crimes, but (in moderation) it doesn’t, itself, cause direct harm to an innocent bystander, nor does prostitution.