Why are soap operas fading away?

General Hospital - guilty of watching it for ages when I started in Berlin seeing it on American Forces Network in the afternoons when there was nothing (and I mean nothing) else on television.

The story arcs usually have some mild interest, but yes - you can miss several days and not really miss much.

I think the audience is getting tired of the same-old, same-old. I don’t believe there has ever been a staircase that didn’t have a pregnant woman fall down it. Every character, no matter the age, has a secret love child that pops up when a new character is needed. Hell, some have had 4 or 5 of these love-child bastards appear over the course of the years. Plus, they seem to feel that during the summer, it is necessary to give the young actors a big story with the hopes of roping in younger viewers - doesn’t work and usually pisses off the core audience who doesn’t care about Biff cheating on little Mandy at the coffee shop and her stealing his skateboard in retaliation.

Too bad one soap doesn’t take a plunge into “real” stories and get gritty with it, but that is another myth - supposedly, daytime viewers are “afraid” of controversy and they have to make the stories acceptable to every Mormon mom and 87 year old person in the world. Needless to say, this severely limits the drama.

My husband will be both delighted and appalled. Delighted because he’s always wanted more than one child, and appalled because Bill thinks that the Libertarian Party is too liberal, and Der Trihs is…well, he’s Der Trihs.

Also, I hope that Der Trihs hasn’t been having a secret love affair with my daughter.

Soap opera fans have never been in denial about their ridiculousity. And I dare you to mention any soap that approaches Twilight for sheer silliness.

Given that it’s mostly daytime soaps that are dying, I think the cause is the necessarily glacial pace of the storyline. They require too much of a time commitment.

Is your daughter about to marry?, if so, I suspect there is a strong likelihood of Der Trihs showing up in the wedding, just when the priest is saying the bit about "“Does anyone hold any objections to this wedding”
And screaming “noooooooooo!!!”

Well, there was a soap ten years ago called “Passion” that had an incompetent Witch as a main character. The Witch had a sidekick that was really a rag-doll, but turned into a living, breathing “little person” when no-one else was looking. The Witch had it in for this Good Girl teenager heroine.

Y’see the Good Girl teenager was destined to have something called “love powers” that could dispel witches, but only after she had sex with her “One True Love.” Of course, being a good girl teenager, she was waiting until she grew up & got married to have sex.

Meanwhile the Good Girls’ jealous Bad Girl cousin wanted the Good Girls’ One True Love for herself, so she helped the witch cast a spell so that the Good Girls’ bedroom closet became a gateway to Hell, and the Good Girl got sucked into Hell!

So, the Good Girls’ One True Love and some ancillary characters stood around for about a months’ worth of episodes saying “What happened to [Good Girl]? Where’d she go?” And this Blind Priest, who knew all about what Bad Girl had done (but she’d told him about it during confession, so the Priest couldn’t tell anybody else) kept begging the Bad Girl to tell everyone what she did…

Uhh. even as I’m writing it, I can’t figure it out. Suffice to say, yes there are soap storylines even MORE moronic than “Twilight.”

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I hadn’t read any further in the thread before what I came to say was said. The movement of soap opera themes and even stars to prime time is another factor.

Compare Grey’s Anatomy to your standard hospital soap opera and I defy you to point out any significant differences.

Gazillion channels with home improvement, jewelry shopping, fantasy travel and having your soul saved for a price are all swiping audience from the 50’s looking daily fare.

Soap opera production values haven’t been upgraded all that much either.

Not that I ever watched daily soaps after I turned 20.

That’s not just soap operas - you will NEVER see viewers like that for a TV show again, because in the 50’s there were three channels. The Ed Sullivan show was watched by teenagers and their grandparents together. Now media is fragmented and only getting more so - the audiences will never be so monolithic again.

It’s really all about money. The thing is actors and writers have outpriced themselves. If you can put on a soap opera for say $100,000 and get 10,000 women to watch or you can put on reruns of “Roseanne” for $50,000 and get 8,000 women to watch. Which makes sense?

Broadcasters discovered in the 70s and 80s it doesn’t matter what you put on. A core number of people are going to watch regardless, whether it’s drama, sitcoms ore reality.

It’s not about fewer channels, it’s about a different way of thinking in the corporate world. This is covered excellently in the book “Fast Food Nation” by Eric Schlosser.

People think this is a book about “Fast Food,” and it’s not. It is a book about how OTHER business from builders to farmers have taken the model applied to run a successful fast food resturaunt and applied it to virtually every other business.

This business model addresses things such as “Bottom line” and forgets pretty much everything else. Basically which stresses if one person can lower the field, other have to lower their fields as well to compete. Once all the fields have been lowered you get a sameness. The business styles that are different are by enlarge reserved for the top 10% of income earners.

William S Paley of CBS for decades worried not about profit, but about image and programming. Network TV shows only worry about profit. And remember it’s not just profit, it’s THE MOST profit. If CBS made 1 billion in profit, the members of the board and shareholder of CBS aren’t going to congratulate the CEO and COO and CFO on making 1 billion in profit. They will demand to know WHY the profit wasn’t 1 billion AND ONE dollars. And if you COULD’VE made it why didn’t you?

So it’s really that American business models started changing and in the 80s and 90s with capital investment firms, really solidified this change.

They were saving that for Sweeps.

I’ve never bought that argument. Between all the affairs, divorces, murders, teenage sex and swear words, soap operas have never been clean. I’d go so far as to say your average soap is dirtier than your average primetime show.

I think this post answered the OP completely. It’s 100% correct in my experience. I used to watch GH religiously, but I haven’t watch in a year for precisely these reasons. The same ridiculous people doing the same stupid shit in retreads of the same retarded storylines again and again and again. No character ever does anything interesting. Nothing truly dramatic can happen. Also, at least in GH, the female characters don’t get their own storylines. Every single story for a female revolves around 1) being in love 2)getting pregnant 3)pregnancy complications 4)messy paternity battles 5) rape. Believe it or not, women have other interests. Even the women who are home during the day.

What makes it worse is that other television shows, even other network shows, are allowed to actually deal with real, gritty issues. Other shows are allowed to have characters grow and change. Other shows are allowed to have real emotional drama and not just emotional manipulation. The emotional manipulation on GH is one of the things that makes me the most crazy. Since the characters aren’t allowed to behave at all like real people, and they’re forced to go through the same overplayed cycle of stories, the writers are forced to rely on heavy-handed emotional blackmail to generate drama, and audiences are more savvy than that.

I only watch GH, but I would not be surprised if these problems are present in all soaps. Recently, a young male character was sent to jail for murder (which he committed, but of course the entire city of Port Charles was outraged that he would have to be punished because the moral code on that show is completely fucked up) and he was…raped–given how obsessed GH is with rape, I was not surprised to learn this. Do other things happen in jail? Yes. Could this have been an amazing opportunity for the young man to realize that his father the mobster is NOT the best role model? Yes. Could this have led to a story of personal growth and hardship that resulted in a character who would always be changed and at odds with the life he was raised in? Yes. Does that have dramatic possibility? Absolutely. But it would have been, you know, hard. So much easier to just rape him and milk that for all the exploitive drama possible.

Even the core group of die hard fans are getting tired of it. And GH’s ratings have reflected that fact.

I was a big fan of soaps in the late '80s and early ‘90s. In fact, I wanted to write for soaps and eventually worked at CBS Daytime as an assistant to the director. I lost a lot of my affection for the genre around that time. Guess I should’ve paid attention to the ol’ “you don’t wanna know how sausages are made” warning.

Anyway, let me tell you why I loved soaps. Classic soap storytelling isn’t just plotty-plotty-plot crap. It’s about characters and watching them either grow or self-destruct. While obviously there were a plethora of traditional who’s-the-daddy and love triangle storylines back then, in those days the writers used those traditional beats as a jump-off point to dig into a character’s psyche and the multiple shadings of his/her relationships (not just romantic, but friends and family too). I know many people look down on soaps – hey, even those who avidly defend romance novels are looking down on daytime dramas :smiley: – but it’s a shallow stereotype of the genre to say the only thing soaps have ever done is focus on phantom pregnancies and cheesy love triangles. Those often silly storylines were the vehciles for letting us examine the lives of some surprisingly complex characters. The slower pace, the depth of storytelling, the arcs that embraced a whole community of characters and showed how each person reacted in different ways to a single event… These were soaps’ strengths. But that’s not true anymore, and it’s sad.

I believe the reason for the industry’s downfall is multifaceted. It does, however, start with the migration of women to the workforce and the increase of daytime programming competition. Once ratings began to fade, soap producers and networks began to panic and flail. They decided that the solution was to court younger viewers. Assuming their older, longtime viewers would stay with them no matter what (exactly why, I have no idea: hubris, laziness, outright stupidity, I dunno), the production companies looked for something that’d grab young eyeballs.

Many longtime beloved characters – i.e. those older than forty – were backburnered for a plethora of muscle-bound would-be badboys and sex-starved nymphets. Stories became more bizarre and outrageous thanks to the brief trainwreck-like ratings bump gained from the mid-1990s Days of Our Lives’ infamous Satan possession storyline and other crap from the pen of hack-writer James Reilly and wannabes.

This desperate grab eventually alienated the people who’d been watching their serials for decades. The people who were now working but still tried to make the time to watch 3.5 hours of their soap a week didn’t find this stuff as compelling, especially when it involved so many new, uninteresting characters to whom they weren’t particularly drawn. In a vicious circle, producers with lowered ratings found they had to cut costs, so they fired beloved oldtimers in favor of cheaper newcomers, which cost them more viewers, which meant they had to cut costs even more. Production values plummeted, fewer cast members were used, and stories became insular in scope. More firings. More young characters.

In short, they broke faith with the late thirtysomething and older audience members and we fell away. (Where did we go? There are other continuing serialized dramas now found on primetime; they’re not quite the same, but they share a lot of qualities with the best soap tales and have higher production values, better directing, usually better acting (with noteworthy exceptions) and certainly tighter writing.)

Despite all these efforts to attain young viewers having failed, the producers still think a bird in the bush is better than the one that’s still in your hand. They continue to ignore their once-loyal viewers thinking that grabbing for the gold ring of teenyboppers and college kids will be their salvation.

This is pretty much par for the course with this industry. One thing I’ve learned over the years is that soap producers and networks are absolutely, pathologically unable to learn from their mistakes. They can’t do it. If a headwriter hack like James Reilly or Richard Culliton or Dena Higley fucks up one soap, they get fired. Great, right? Yeah, but what happens to them next? Do they turn to some other form of writing? Nope, they get hired by another soap! Same thing with producers. There are like ten headwriters and producers who get shuffled around, failing both downwards and upwards, bouncing from staff to staff and network to network like a live grenade. In real life, most people who saw other victims get blown up would refuse to take hold of that grenade next, wouldn’t they? Not in Daytime TV!. In Daytime, a network will give you another shot no matter how badly you stunk up another soap. It’s like Kenneth Lay immediately getting hired to run AT&T.

Believe it or not, networks and production companies continue to blame the freakin’ OJ trial for the loss of popularity. They refuse to look inward and see that they’re signing their own death warrant. I find it sad but inevitable since they just will. not. learn.

Whew, sorry about the dissertation. BTW, just to correct one thing mentioned earlier, there are seven – soon to be six – soaps remaining on the major networks:

CBS: As the World Turns (cancelled; will end in Sep '10), The Young and the Restless, and The Bold and the Beautiful

NBC: Days of Our Lives

ABC: All My Children, One Life to Live, and General Hospital

Stop being smarter than me, Pep. It’s annoying.

It’s alway about money.

Many big sponsers dropped ads during soap operas during the economic downturn.

In my case I watched “All My Children” from 1980 (when my cafeteria at work had in on TV during lunch) to 2000, missing a couple years here and there. I gave it up because I decided it was kind of an addiction to come home, rewind the VCR and spend 50 minutes watching something everyday. But as “Choie” says, as you get older you get more dissatisfied how everything is catered to the young and very little to your age group.

In further news Disney will change it’s Soapnet channel to Disney Jr in 2012

I disagree. If the only thing on TV during the day is soap operas, then that’s what you watch because you have no choice. I used to hate being home sick form school because there was nothing on TV except soap operas until lunchtime cartoons. Being too sick to do f–k all else, I watched the soap operas.

Once we got a VCR that all changed. Being sick at home didn’t mean soap opera torture, it meant movies.

Yes, but you aren’t everyone. I would say it’s safe to assume most people who watched soaps every day enjoyed them. Characters like Days of Our Lives’ Doug and Julie --and, later, General Hospital’s Luke and Laura – didn’t make it to the cover of Time, and Guiding Light didn’t jump from radio to TV and last nearly seventy years, just because lots of crabby sick kids like you were forced to listen/watch!

“Would you please hurry up and fix this thing! My wife has nothing to watch and so she keeps trying to talk to me!”

When I was a kid, I was rarely so sick that I couldn’t read. As an adult, I’ve been that sick, but we’ve had a VCR or DVD player for most of my adult life. Plus, as an adult, we’ve had more TV channels. When I was on bed rest during my pregnancy, for instance, MAS*H was on a lot during the daytime, plus we had the PBS channel. Even Sesame Street is more interesting than soaps, IMO.

When I’m REALLY sick, of course, I hallucinate, which is…interesting. Not necessarily enjoyable, but interesting. And if I’m that sick, I can’t concentrate enough to even watch a soap.