Not so much here as in the Guardian.
Oh, OK. Rarely is anything like this all good or all bad.
Some Scottish-independence-wanting Guardian readers take the view that “if only we could cut free from London & S.E./Thatcherland we might have a decent chance of building the sort of comforting social democracy state that we had for a brief moment from, say, 1945 - 1979, instead of this neo-liberalism that seems to be taking over the world. Give the people their familiar comfort blankets (sterling, the Queen, the EU) if they must have them, and tell them everything will change but nothing will change. Once it’s on its feet we can start ditching Salmond and the SNP, and argue for ‘socialism in one country’. It might even show England back to the right road.”
Only the People matter, States are temporary organisations of convenience. It’s always an event worthy of celebration when the citizens of a region get to have the state formation they wish.
“Caledonia in swampy mosquito infested Panama” surely. Plus, your implication that larger countries are run better than smaller ones, because of their size, is demonstrably incorrect.
If one of the freedoms they want is self-determination, the Union clearly doesn’t guarantee that.
No. unfortunately not correct. The SNP ones do not, as a matter or principle, vote on purely English/Welsh whatever matters, but the other parties prefer not to deprive themselves of any votes in Parliament. So it’s possible to find Scottish MPs that are Liberal or Labour OR Tory, voting on matters that they really shouldn’t, like health or education.
Gaelic has never been THE Scottish Language. Gaelic was common in the highlands and islands and filtered into central Scotland, but for centuries the vast majority of Scots lived outside this area and spoke a Northern British Germanic Language, sometimes called Lowland, Lollands, Braird Scots or just Scots. Even the Aberdeen area has its own Germanic language- Doric.
Gaelic and the various Scots tongues are entirely unrelated in vocabulary and form. Gaelic is very similar to Irish Gaelic and the two languages developed as the complex emigration and immigration between North Western Scotland and Ireland occurred over many centuries.
Modern Scots usage varies from a simple accent, vocabulary and syntax variation on standard English, through complex and varied non-English vocabulary and syntax to the point of mutual lack of understanding.
I am English living in Scotland and can understand much broad Scots but some is beyond me; some is beyond many Scots also- See the film Brave where what appears to be an Idiot son speaking garbage is heavily accented Doric!
Tony Blair was not obviously culturally Scottish and represented an English constituency.
Speaking as English living in Scotland for over a decade, there is much pride here in how much better we are governed than the rest of the UK in devolved areas- Education, Health Service, Local Government, Legal System, Penal Policy and so on. Looking back to England from the outside from here looks like observing Bedlam on a bad day. We have a system that seems to more at peace with itself and communitarian in every aspect. Yet we are still unable to control many aspects of society in such a manner.
Whatever the outcome in September, much more autonomy will flow to Scotland and in my opinion this can only be a good thing.
I share with you a Party Political Broadcast from three years ago that gives some idea of the changes wrought since devolution.
many want more and the Independence ‘Yes’ campaign seems to be gaining fast on the very negative Unionist ‘No’ campaign.
Interesting times!
Are you sure?
First of all you have the issue of which language an independent Scotland should promote: Scots or Gaelic.
Then you have the various economic and cultural forces that have pushed many languages into obscurity, and do so with ever greater force.
I think Scots and Gaelic would have experienced the same sidelining that’s happened to languages with small populations worldwide.
He was born and raised in Edinburgh to Scottish parents.
Yes, he represented an English constituency, should Scotland become independent, I assume Scots would still be allowed to stand in the rUK, as people from Southern Ireland and the Commonwealth are currently eligibleto stand.
I have zero enthusiam for the issue. I’m sure I’m missing a lot, can someone tell me why I should care?
Although born to Scottish parents, Tony Blair’s primary education was in England, his secondary back in Scotland, his tertiary in England. He never lived in Scotland as an adult. He qualified for the English Bar and lived in England his entire political life. He rarely identified as Scottish, spoke with a received southern English accent, and was not seen by Scots as truly a Scot. Proud of his Scottish heritage, he never proclaimed it in any public manner.
The main question is not about ‘Scots’ being elected to Parliament (we have had many MPs with other nationalities, German, Pakistani, Indian, Australian, New Zealand, Canadian and Irish) but being a person elected to represent a Scottish seat.
See Ireland where Gaelic remains a minority option even after nearly a century of non British Empire rule.
Are you British? If so it is important as Scotland would take 85% of current offshore reserves of Gas and Oil. Additionally the tecnology for undersea Fracking is being developed- guess where most of the possible gas fields are!
It is thought that Britain’s AAA credit rating may be damaged by the split, pushing up interest rates by a couple of percent.
It might be the trigger for realigning the Security Council, stripping France and Britain of their Seats and having seats for Europe, Brazil, South Africa, India etc.
Faslane is in Scotland. Scotland may decide to become a nuclear free zone.
Britain would have repeated un-removable Tory governments (even if the referendum says no now, the prospect of further Tory Governments might easily result in a re-run within a decade anyway- if it is close it will not be ‘settled for a generation’ as hoped by the Unionists.)
There is just a possibility that Scotland would decide to stay in the EU and rump Britain leave- that would be interesting!
Scottish Corporation tax might be lowered to improve industrialisation and work prospects in Scotland, competing with rump Britain for car manufacture etc.
It affects everyone in the UK.
I cannot see in any way how this is a good thing for Scotland.
However, a couple of questions as to what this all means…
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Will Scotland still remain part of the Commonwealth (whatever that is), ala Canada?
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I guess this means that the US will have to formally recognize Scottish independence and establish an embassy? (And, by extension, does Scotland automatically get a seat in the UN?)
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What are the odds of increased militarism along the Britain/Scotland border? A fence? Checkpoints? Hell, even wargames?
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Scotland will need a military, right? If they have offshore oil leases, they’ll need a Navy to protect their interests. Are these ships going to be built, bought, or impounded? Is Scotland going to argue that since they constitute roughly 8% of the population of the UK, they should get 8% of the Royal Navy?
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Does Scotland think she can win a war with England if it comes to that? Yeah, I know - “it’s not going to happen.” But somebody has to think Worst Case Scenario - is anybody on the Scottish side doing that? Don’t forget: Queen Elizabeth’s words are backed with NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
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Don’t know if you do this over in the UK, but in the US it is common to see maps that show the relative amounts of Federal tax inflows and outflows from each State, per capita, so that you can tell that some States effectively subsidize other States. If you do the same thing, what will be the tax/benefit ratio for Scotland? Does she pay more than they get back, or is Scotland partially subsidized by the other parts of the UK? (Please note this question assumes there is an overarching budget for the entire United Kingdom, but for all I know the various sections already are self-reliant in that their tax receipts exactly match their tax expenditures.)
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If Scotland doesn’t establish its own currency, it has effectively given control of Monetary policy to the ECB, the Bank of England, or the Federal Reserve… with no say into how two of these institutions conduct business, and merely being 1 out of 30-odd votes in the third. Does Scotland want to be a GIPSI/PIIGS?
Fair point, if Ireland had gained independence in say 1800 when English to Gaelic speakers were closer to 50/50, it might have had a chance to become (or remain) the actual language of the majority but by the 1920s the damage was already long since done.
Yes, or at least I think that’s what the independence white paper said. As to what the Commonwealth is: one of my lecturers at university kept saying that it was “the methadone of empire”. That one stuck with me.
The US could do whatever they want, but London would recognise Scottish independence. Scotland would probably have to apply to enter the UN but that shouldn’t be a problem (I don’t see Russia, China, France or the UK vetoing it). Their entry into the EU could be threatened by Spain, but I’m sure that wouldn’t be an issue in the long-term.
Very unlikely, seeing how friendly this whole process is being. The Scotland/Britain border would probably remain open under a similar agreement to the one the UK and Ireland have at the moment.
No idea, but I don’t see them being stupid enough to steal Royal Navy material. Maybe they’ll go for the Icelandic route - no standing army but support from NATO?
No, of course not. It would be idiotic of them to even risk a war with England-Wales-NI.
Maybe some knowledgeable StraightDoper will have an answer, but I don’t think there is. Spain has had a similar conflict with Catalonia for decades now, but no-one really knows whether Catalonia gets more than it gives.
From my own experience, what sunk the PIGS countries was not the Euro. It was widespread corruption, unsustainable economic growth based on speculation, and very weak state institutions. Scotland will have little financial independence whether it sticks to the pound or adopts the Euro, but I’m sure it doesn’t suffer from as many fundamental weaknesses as Spain or Italy.
I agree. At this point, an independent Scotland would no doubt continue to promote Standard English, and funnel some token money to promoting both Scots and Gaelic. Neither would get enough support to be viable community languages except in remote regions where they already are anyway.
I only brought up language as an example of a distinctive, easily recognizable area of culture which has declined due to the existence of the UK. It’s far too late for either of them to be a national language again. Even Welsh, which is doing very well, is holding steady at best. English is too commercially valuable a skill set. The same with other facets of UK culture.