Challenging Valteron from the perspective of “the Christians were as bad or worse” is not really all that productive as he is quite willing to hate Christians, as well. He simply has a deeper hate for his view of Islam.
Let’s not go there in Great debates.
[ /Moderating ]
Liberalism as a political orientation tends to eschew discrimination against groups based on their religion, color, sexual orientation and so on.* As a result, those who wish to continue to practice discrimination against a particular group often decry liberal behavior as “political correctness” and try any variety of tactics to scare or shame others into supporting their bigoted discrimination.
If there was some reason that you believed liberals would or should be supportive of discrimination against Islam, I would contend that you were never really liberal yourself, or you severely misunderstood what I take to be a key aspect of being a liberal. Thus, I don’t really feel, as a liberal myself, much of a loss at your departure. Go in peace and don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
*Note to the reflexively stupidly oppositional amongst us, before you attempt to Dio-ssify me: I’m not claiming that no liberal ever holds a bigoted opinion or belief. I’m saying that if they are surprised that liberals aren’t generally supportive of their bigotry, they severely misunderstood something when they took the brochure.
Sorry, I’ll try to keep the level of discourse more adult.
Have you ever noticed that the name “Muslims” can be divided into “Mu” (Moo), which is a cow noise made derisively at fat people, and “slims”, referring to thin people. Clearly Islam is a religion which values thinness and hates overweight people. And which country is known for its overweight population? That’s right - America. Muslims want to destroy America for its fatness.
I have proven this. WAKE UP SHEEPLE!
I bet if someone wanted to build a Catholic church on that location, it wouldn’t even be political.
Actually, I’ve read every word of this thread, as I do any thread that I post to, and one thing that is quite apparent is that you are the sole person throwing around the terms “racist” and “fascist” here.
Another thing that is noticeable is that you seem to be arguing something quite different from what you claimed as the subject of this thread. I remind you that you claimed to want to debate whether the media were paying enough attention to a protest against a planned mosque in New York City. Since then, however, it very much seems seems that you have ignored your own premise in favor of generalized polemic against all muslims. If all you want to do is rant about the evils of Islam, just say so; it will save us all a lot of otherwise wasted time.
Just so we’re clear, what is it you want to debate?
And the ‘left’ does not have a good word to say for Fundie Islam either. Wanna provide some cites for your straw-manning?
It’s pretty early in the whole process of setting up this center, and that may be dampening media attention. (Although as other posters pointed out, the press hasn’t ignored this.) The Cordoba Initiative already owns the building and does not need any kind of permits for a zoning change, and from what I can tell they are not close to starting construction because they’ll have to raise plenty of money. So this place will not be built any time soon. The stupidity will probably increase when they start construction and the opening date approaches, assuming they get that far.
Well, thanks to these types of jackasses we’re now having to reopen debate on the 1964 civil rights act, so I’m really not that surprised.
By the way, the Community Board made up entirely of people who live in that community voted to approve the mosque/community center, 29 to 1.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/mancb1/downloads/pdf/Resolutions/10-05-25.pdf
Strangely, actual residents of the area around the WTC don’t fear the magnetic pull of Islam’s public swimming pool and culinary school, as much as some other people. I mean, we all know anyone can get converted to radical Islam just by eating a good falafel.
Well, the topic has made it to Fark.com, from a Salon story. So there’s that for media penetration:
Appropriated outrage. Because something tragic happened somewhere, people who live and work elsewhere somehow feel like they’re entitled to somehow approve what goes on around that site. I notice that there was at least one 9/11 relative at this protest. Does that relative live in the neighborhood? Does that relative even live in Manhattan? Does the fact that his relative died in the 9/11 attack somehow give him the right to tell the people who actually live in that neighborhood what they can and cannot do?
And what about people protesting about this mosque who don’t even live in New York STATE? That nasty blogger whose name I can’t remember who was on Joy Behar a month ago about this, for example. I believe she lives in California, but she’s all over these folks like they’re trying to build that mosque in her backyard. How about all the offenderati who don’t actually live in the neighborhood (or in Manhattan, perhaps) shut the hell up?
Just for the sake of being thorough, I’ll note that this approval is not required for the project. But you’re right, of course, that most people in New York City just don’t give a shit about stuff like this. If we got worked up about everything that was within two blocks of something historic, we’d never get anything done and nothing would ever get built.
Right. Seriously, the protesters here need to get a life. I expect people with a connection to the events to be upset about things like this - although the ones who do this kind of NIMBY crap always get more attention than the ones who don’t protest everything or who don’t make a spectacle of themselves at every opportunity - but they don’t get veto power over everything that happens in downtown Manhattan. I can understand that they have a little input over what happens on the WTC site, but this is not on the site. It’s nearby. And New Yorkers are perfectly capable of getting outraged, and do not need other people get upset on their behalf.
If I’m not mistaken, I believe that Cordoba is also the source of fine Corinthian leather.
I have no idea how it’s possible to do a Ricardo Montalban impression in print with standard orthography, but in my mind, you just did. Congratulations!
(Although I think that should be “rich Corinthian leather”.)
Hmmm. Making leather out of the rich. No. That would be going too far.
Er, why? Why should somebody who suffered a personal tragedy as a consequence of 9/11 be upset that a liberal Muslim group advocating for interfaith understanding, multi-cultural dialogue, social and political liberalization of Islamic societies, and women’s rights in Islamic countries is planning to build a mosque and community center near the 9/11 site?
I would think such a person would be especially glad to see an Islamic organization actively repudiating fundamentalist hatred and oppression, and reaching out to other faiths and cultures.
If the group were a militant Wahhabi extremist organization formed for propagating anti-American sentiments, I can see why not only 9/11 victims but everybody else too would be repulsed by their actions. Even then, I would have to say that if they were the legal owners of the property and they were not actually violating any laws, then they’d be legally entitled to go ahead and build their mosque and nobody would have any business trying to stop them, no matter how unenthusiastic we feel about them.
But this group, the Cordoba Initiative? What has anybody in the world actually got against this group, other than a bunch of bizarre conspiracy theories about secret Muslim code names and the fact that they’re Muslim in the first place? Are the Cordoba Initiative folks actually somewhat dodgy or suspect in verifiable ways that I haven’t heard about, or is this protest phenomenon just a pack of run-of-the-mill Islamophobes finding an excuse for a freakout?
This protest seems more or less on a par with picketing a Quaker meeting house because you’re mad about the excesses and abuses of the Inquisition. “What the hell, they’re all Christians, right? Down with the murdering oppressors!!” “Friend, are thee sure that thee has the right address?”
Yeah – if they want attention, let them earn it, by gum!
I think the OP’s beef should be with the teabaggers and Arizona lawmakers. Those are the people who used up the mainstream media’s allotment for crazy assholes. It’s not as if you can stick a newscamera in front of every group of reactionary dickheads; we’d never see anything else!