Does it not make sense to you people that when a group claims to have done something in the name of their religion, it’s going to make that religion look bad? And does it not makes sense that, with the immorality of a lot of Sharia law. and a worship book that teaches about holy wars, and places that threaten to bomb you just for making a depiction of their prophet–does it not makes sense that some people would take them on their word, and assume they are bad people?
It’s the same argument used by Dawkins against Christians. The good ones should take out the bad ones, or they are offering tacit support. And I don’t remember anyone saying Dawkins was “bigoted, ignorant[,] and deranged […]”
Well, then, I imagine only a tiny fraction of 1% of the 70 or 80 million Germans in the Third Reich actually committed war crimes, and only a tiny fraction of the 200 million or more Soviets took part in purges and genocides under Stalin. I guess it is just me being paranoid. I will snooze off now, and wake me when the number of Muslims willing to do violence to bring about the world caliphate has reached hundreds of thousands in Ameica, when our cities have Muslim no-go zones where even the police dare not go as in many cities in Europe and Britain, etc. No need to panic right away, right?
Probably. I don’t think that’s particularly surprising, though. Puerto Rican separatists have a concrete goal,a distinct grievance against the US, and Puerto Rico has been part of the US since the 19th century.
Radical Islamism is a fairly recent phenomenon, without concrete goals, and has never been very common among the American Muslim population.
Isn’t that what the Cordoba Initiative is doing, by promoting moderate/liberal Islam and working for expanded civil rights in Muslim-governed nations? I mean, they’re even promoting things like female imams, and working towards community acceptance of same.
People have. All the time. You’ve never seen this?
Which was more or less the point I was trying to make in the first place.
Absolutely you’re right–only a tiny fraction of citizens of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union were active participants in their evils. Most of them were just trying to keep their heads down out of fear.
Also, same to you as I said to BigT–if you’re so scared of extremist Muslims, why the hell would you rail against a Muslim group that’s openly committed to (and getting flak from the extremists for) moderate/liberal Islam, Women’s Rights in Muslim countries, etc?
Are you this scared of our drug-crazed police no-go zones in this country? Your final arguments are as easily applied to American blacks as they are to European Muslims–which is to say, you’re still prosecuting the majority for the actions of a tiny minority.
No, it’s you being a stupid bigot who needs an outlet for impotent rage. If you were that worried about it you would’ve found something else to do beyond posting about it on a message board where nobody takes your opinions seriously in the first place.
Blood flowing in the streets of Mumbai, Israel attacked for over 60 years, thousands dead in the WTC, busses blowing up in Britain, trains in Spain, imams preaching holy war against the west, but hey, don’t worry, as long as you can find one or two decent Muslims everything is OK.
The people who live in that NYC neighborhood don’t have a problem with the Cordoba center. Why don’t you limit yourself to keeping your neighborhood in Canada pure?
I don’t think anyone wants you to do that. But you do tend to paint with a very large brush, and do neither yourself nor your cause much good when you rant against Muslims in general, not making distinction between radical Islamists and the Muslim population as a whole.
There’s no evidence that the Cordoba Initiative people are radical Islamists.
This certainly does make sense, up to a point. Of course, technically people shouldn’t evaluate an entire category of believers based on what some bad apples claim their religion requires them to do, but in the real world, that kind of guilt by association is always going to be present.
Which makes it even more perplexing that people here should be complaining about the proposed Cordoba Initiative community center. From everything I can see, this project IS a case of "the good ones taking out the bad ones".
The Cordoba Initiative is very upfront about its goals of promoting inter-faith understanding, rejection of Islamist violence, improvement of human rights and women’s rights in Islamic societies, supporting liberal interpretations of Shari`a, and a whole bunch of other Good Stuff.
So why the hell are people bitching about them, and even complaining that the media isn’t paying enough attention to people bitching about them? I would think that any sensible person who is serious about supporting the modernization and liberalization of political Islam worldwide would be embarrassed to have the media publicize the fact that a bunch of doofuses are trying to inflict an own goal on them.
And speaking of own goals—from boytyperanma’s link:
Congratulations Valteron, your thread helped publicize the “WTC mosque” protest and made people more aware of the ideas and actions of the protestors. Happy now?
You don’t understand. To people like Valteron, or at least this is what I’m understanding from his incoherent rants, there are no good Muslims. The ones who appear to be good are just lulling the West into a state of unpreparedness for the coming JIHAD!
Valteron, we don’t need to know you to know this. All we have to do is read every single stinking bigoted post you’ve made in this thread.
It’s interesting that he posts this and also claims not to be a bigot.
This argument really is like arguing that any native German speaker (not German or Nazi State citizen, but native German speaker) is responsible. for Nazi Germany.
That’s very
.
Uhhh. First, subjects of the USSR regime, and … Yeah and they had neither control nor real input into the purges. Using this as an argument only shows that you’re truly fucking stupid (as well as a hysterical idiot).
not only an idiot, a moronic flaming idiot.
Would you like to also mention blood flowing in the streets of Gujurat province, in anti Muslim pogroms?
What this has to do with Islam as Islam versus local religious bigotries escapes me.
As Christian Palestinians were fundamental to the various anti-Israel terror outfits, pinning this on Islam is just ignorant religious bigotry.
…
One should hope not as you are a pedestrian bigot, using your sexual orientation as cover for incoherent, ignorant bigoted ranting.
Nonsense. Nobody is saying that “everything is OK” or that radical violent Islamist extremism isn’t in fact a serious problem.
What we’re saying is that you don’t help the cause of resistance to radical violent Islamist extremism by ignorantly condemning Muslims or Islam in general, and especially not by protesting against moderate and liberal pro-peace Muslims in particular.
Good point. Marley23 should have specified that the personality you project on this messageboard is that of a stupid bigot.
If you’re better than that in real life, then our loss is your real-life associates’ gain.
I can deal with Canadian issues as well. There is a rape case right now before a court in Toronto in which the victim is a veiled Muslima (I thought all this covering up kept men from being overcome with lust and raping women? But I digress.)
She is refusing to remove her veil, thus depriving the accused of the basic right to see and confront their accuser, and depriving the judge of what they call “demeanour evidence” which is the look and body language of people as they testify.
Once again, it is our western traditions and our justice system that has to bend over and take it to suit Muslims who chose to come here. Because to a Muslim, the fact that 99% of Canadians are Kaffirs simply means they have not yet been brought into submission to Islam.
Unfortunately I have to read your posts from time to time, but thank you for pointing out the bright side - I don’t know you personally. what I see in your posts is a lot of over-the-top spluttering vitriol against religions - and it’s hard to go over the top against religion considering how much harm it’s caused - and in particular blind, undiscerning loathing of Muslims. Which is again impressive because large swaths of Islam have major problems like oppressing women and gays and in general are not very supportive of anyone who is different. And yet when you post about these things (and I think they’re all you post about), you always manage to come off as the bigger asshole. That’s quite a feat.
What I meant is "How does Marley 23 know what I do besides post to the message boards? I will not get more specific (I have no intention of being killed by a Muslim fanatic) but how does Marley 23 know that I restrict my activities to just posting on SDMB? Is he here to see the rest of my activities? Important point: My activities are all legal. I do not hijack planes and fly them into building, put bombs on busses, or decapitate Jews and post it on YouTube.
