Why are there no ferries to Cuba, from anywhere?

[KarlGrenze]

@The_Great_Philosopher

So people who want to go there can go there, in exchange for money?

To Cuba, or to Haiti? Something tells me neither regular, everyday Cubans nor regular, everyday Haitians would have that much money to make the travel either side. You’d be counting a lot on tourists going to Haiti deciding to suddenly go to Cuba, or Cuban tourists suddenly deciding to go to Haiti.

In my experience, in the Caribbean, where I’ve seen ferries, they do have a lot of tourists, but they have internal tourists (or day tourists) or everyday people too. The everyday people and businesspeople are an important part of that transaction.

So why has no one tried to set up a once-a-week ferry service?

You’re thinking of ferries solely to transport tourists, right? The reason may be the companies have decided that tourists, as a whole, by themselves, would not support a ferry service between the islands.

Also, I think the population in Indonesia and Malaysia is much bigger than that in different Caribbean countries.

[Giles]

@The_Great_Philosopher

Hey, Indonesia has a language barrier with Malaysia, not much in common culturally and huge swathe of difficult sailing between them.

The official languages of those two countries are Bahasa Indonesia and Bahasa Malaysia, respectively (though many other languages are spoken) – and those are two dialects of the same language, with some differences in vocabulary, but not enough to make communication really difficult. It’s a bit like the language barrier between England and Scotland

[KarlGrenze]

A check in Wikipedia states that there is a ferry that connects Virgin Islands between them, and I know I heard ads for a ferry or day-trip boat to the Virgin islands from Puerto Rico. Again, wouldn’t surprise me if there is something like that among the rest of the island chains in the Lesser Antilles.

[KarlGrenze]

@The_Great_Philosopher

Hey, Indonesia has a language barrier with Malaysia, not much in common culturally and huge swathe of difficult sailing between them. There’s still dozens of ferry services that work that route. I get your argument making sense for there not being a lot of ferries, but one a week? One a month? If you’re trying to say that demand to go to a place that’s only 50 miles away is really that astonishing low, I think the burden of proof lies with you to prove it.

It is farther than that, using this link. You can chage the location to Guantanamo Bay, but it is still more than 100 miles.

Fifty miles or more really is a lot when you don’t have a lot of resources and lack a compelling reason to go somewhere.

[Johnny_Q]

I’m sure the barriers are more political than anything else.

[hogarth]

@The_Great_Philosopher

Cuba to Mexico, Haiti, the Bahamas and even Jamaica are all short distances. They’re all routes frequently travelled by airlines, which are much more expensive than ferries.

Is there really much air traffic between Cancun and Havana (say)? Hm. A quick internet search shows that there’s at least two per day; I guess that counts as ‘frequently traveled’.

You learn something new every day.

[lalenin]

As others have said there are no out of country ferry services in Cuba. There are ferries you can take in Havana to cross the bay, but that’s it. There used to be a ferry between Key West and Havana, but it stopped sometime after the revolution.

For those who do not know, Cubans can’t just pick up and go on a vacation outside the country. In order to leave Cuba, even if you plan on returning, Cubans need a document called a “Carta Blanca”, essentially permission from the government to travel abroad. That document is needed to apply for a passport or an exit visa. And to even have a chance of getting a Carta Blanca Cubans needs a letter of invitation from abroad, either individuals or agencies. So a ferry service from Cuba to anywhere else would run empty most of the time.

As others have pointed out, you can travel to Cuba by boat from just about anywhere. I am certain that boat trips from Mexico are easy to schedule, though they are probably more expensive than a plane ticket.

[The_Great_Philosopher]

@KarlGrenze

TYou’re thinking of ferries solely to transport tourists, right? The reason may be the companies have decided that tourists, as a whole, by themselves, would not support a ferry service between the islands.

Also, I think the population in Indonesia and Malaysia is much bigger than that in different Caribbean countries.

No, ferries to transport anyone - tourists, locals, businessmen, whoever. You don’t have any evidence for your claims, you’re just repeating them - you say there’s no demand whatsoever for a single ferry connection between Cuba and any other country, and I just don’t buy it. This idea that “none of these people are that rich, and they speak different languages, why ever would they go abroad?”. Why does anyone go abroad? If you’re claiming that demand for a ferry from Cuba to anywhere, or from anywhere to Cuba, is genuinely and literally non-existent, you need to prove that to me, not just state it over and over again.

@lalenin

For those who do not know, Cubans can’t just pick up and go on a vacation outside the country. In order to leave Cuba, even if you plan on returning, Cubans need a document called a “Carta Blanca”, essentially permission from the government to travel abroad. That document is needed to apply for a passport or an exit visa. And to even have a chance of getting a Carta Blanca Cubans needs a letter of invitation from abroad, either individuals or agencies. So a ferry service from Cuba to anywhere else would run empty most of the time.

Now this sounds like a more reasonable answer. Interesting. I didn’t know that, and it certainly goes some way to explaining why there might be no ferries. Given this scenario, maybe the government doesn’t allow ferry services, because they’d make it too easy for Cubans to hop abroad and back without needing a Carta Blanca. Anyone able to address this bald speculation?

[Bear_Nenno]

Fuck, Philosopher. Is that total lack of any ferry service to/from Cuba not proof enough that there isn’t enough demand for such a thing? You keep demanding that people prove there isn’t enough demand. Well… the lack of the service speaks for itself.
How many commercial enterprises can you think of that exist without demand?

The distance is doable by ferry.
The waters are navigable by ferry.
Planes currently travel to and from Cuba, so there isn’t a political barrier.

It’s economics. That’s it. Not enough people would pay for the service to keep such an operation profitable. Why is that difficult to grasp? Island Hopper prop planes are not that expensive and they are fast.

[Bear_Nenno]

@The_Great_Philosopher

Interesting. I didn’t know that, and it certainly goes some way to explaining why there might be no ferries.

It goes some way to explaining why there is no demand for a ferry. Not enough passengers to make it profitable.

[The_Great_Philosopher]

@Bear_Nenno

Fuck, Philosopher. Is that total lack of any ferry service to/from Cuba not proof enough that there isn’t enough demand for such a thing?

It isn’t, no. There are hardly any Cuban cigars in America - by your logic, does that prove there’s no demand for them?

I think there could be a whole number of alternative reasons for the lack of a ferry service, including the point lalenin made about Cubans not being allowed to leave the country without explicit authorization, or that open-board ferry services are not allowed by the government. Or a bunch of other things that I haven’t thought of. You’re right that my asking for “proof” is tricky, that’s probably not the right word - maybe “further evidence of some sort”. Any sort. Because without that, I still find it hard to believe that demand for cheaper, across-water transport over a short distance to anywhere is non-existent in Cuba.

[alphaboi867]

@Bear_Nenno

…Planes currently travel to and from Cuba, so there isn’t a political barrier…

Wrong. The only planes flying from the US to Cuba are charter services and those are limited to Cuban-Americans visting family (& presumably the odd government official or journalist). Cuba was a major destination for American tourists before the Revolution and would likely become one again if all travel restrictions were dropped. No Castro, and the ferries would still be sailing today.

[Sunspace]

@alphaboi867

Wrong. The only planes flying from the US to Cuba are charter services and those are limited to Cuban-Americans visting family (& presumably the odd government official or journalist).

But there are plenty of planes flying to Cuba from outside the US. Air Canada has 1 a day from Toronto to Havana, for example. I guess the question really boils down to, why aren’t there any ferries from outside the US to Cuba?

[Notassmartasithought]

Great Philosopher,

You have on several occasions talked about a “once a week” ferry service from Cancun, or elsewhere. That’s the least likely form of ferry, for economic reasons.

Say you invest in a ferry boat–that is get a loan to either buy one or have one built. You then need to repay the loan for the ferry, plus pay operating costs, from the revenue you receive in the form of ticket sales and concessions. You need to maximize your revenue in order to pay your costs and make your planned profits. That gives you two options:

1–Charge enough that you’re able to pay back the loan and cover operating costs from only one day’s service. That would likely mean your ticket price would be close to or more than airfare. Think about it. Not only pay off the loan, but keep a full staff happy so your turnover–and thus training costs–aren’t astronomical. Plus other operating costs–regular safety training, insurance, etc. For slower, less reliable service than by air (it’s easier to fly around storms than to sail around them).

2–Have other revenue producing uses for the boat on the other 6 days. So when you’re suggesting “once a week” service, you need to think about those other 6 days.

Another scenario: say you run a successful ferry 7 days a week from Cancun to Port-au-Prince. What are the economic incentives for you to switch one of those days to Cancun to Havana, knowing that there is virtually no demand for the service from the Cuban side? And very little demand from the US citizens (because of US law), the biggest potential market of all?

It isn’t just demand, it’s whether demand is strong enough at an economically sensible fare level. And as compared to other uses of the boat?

BTW, STRATO - Domain not available is an internationally recognized blog about life in Cuba these days. The writer is walking a fine legal line, but continues with great courage. If you’re interested in Cuba at all, you should read it regularly. You might also read “Granma,” the government news letter, especially for Fidel’s columns. It’s here: http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html in English. Also nice if you’re interested in Cuba.

[KarlGrenze]

Ok, sorry, but part of me is still not understand this “short distance” thing. It’s way more than a couple hundred miles. To someone in the US, that is nothing, but for someone living in relative small to medium sized islands, it is a lot.

Indonesia is not a good comparison because it is the fourth largest country with a population larger than the whole Caribbean basin combined.

Comparing it to Europe is not a good comparison either. More people in European countries, in general, have more disposable income to go jump on a ferry to another European country. Not just as a tourist, but for business.

Also, keep in mind the free transit thing between European countries thanks to the EU. There is no such thing between Cuba and all (or most any other) country. There is still a hassle of visiting a different country, with passport and all that, that doesn’t exist with the EU. Also, if you’re claiming American tourists, they already go to hoops to go to Cuba. Why would they want to make it a longer travel going by sea (if they have to leave from Mexico) when they can board a plane?

lalenin has mentioned a very good reason as to why Cubans cannot participate in this, and why is there no Cuban demand. I’ve given you reasons why Haiti, the poorest country in the whole continent, would not (at least for now) be interested in having a service to Cuba. Others have told you political reasons why ferries from Miami (or Puerto Rico) are not possible. Others have told you economic reasons why it wouldn’t be feasible.

Ferries are cheaper, I’m not denying that, I’ve use them. Ferries are not necessarily faster or any more comfier than an island-hopper plane (used that too). Would I be against more ferries in the Caribbean? No, but again, that probably won’t happen unless the region develops more and Cuba opens its borders more (and the US resumes travel to Cuba).

Why does anyone go abroad?

There are many reasons why would people go abroad. But most people cannot certainly go abroad, even if they would want, if they cannot afford it. Is it so difficult to believe that in most of those countries (particularly Haiti), the vast majority of locals do not have the means to travel outside? They cannot afford the cheap air-hopping planes? Ferry IS cheaper, but that may still be out of reach for many of them.

Confession: I grew up in Puerto Rico, and only went to St. Lucia because of my brother’s marriage (and on his penny). I’m still confused when people think island hopping is easy or cheap. It is neither. I know going to the Dominican Republic is still seen as a “big trip” for many back home.

[alphaboi867]

@Sunspace

But there are plenty of planes flying to Cuba from outside the US. Air Canada has 1 a day from Toronto to Havana, for example. I guess the question really boils down to, why aren’t there any ferries from outside the US to Cuba?

Because a ferry from anywhere in Canada to Cuba would be an ocean liner. Most tourists to Cuba come from too far away for an ocean voyage to make sense. Americans (particularly thouse in the Southeast) would be the most likely users of a ferry. Americans do go to Cuba now, but travel restrictions make it difficult and/or illegal.

[Princhester]

@KarlGrenze

I thought ferries and cruises are built for different sea conditions and different distances, so what may be easy ride in a cruise may be choppy with a ferry.

A “ferry” is a term defining a vessel’s trading pattern, not its physical type. There are ferries that are large ships, and there are ferries that are small flat top barges.

[Walther_Ego]

I think truck traffic explains a part why Europe has so many ferries. Roads are jammed so by-passing a route with a bridge can be advantageous.The truck-drivers need to sleep too, so longer, up to 10-hour trips can actually be a bonus to the driver: the cargo moves while you sleep and have your breakfast. I see little benefit in the Caribbean to move trucks around as pretty much everybody lives by a port of some sort. Same goes with normal car traffic.

What is more interesting is why the Caribbean doesn’t have a catamaran service? Or does it? They are slower than aircraft but you save 2 hours in the check-in. Ports are usually in the center of city while airports far away. Tickets should be cheaper. They are often small so population size is not important.

I see no problem what so ever to design a ferry for the Caribbean. Practically all the bad weather comes from the hurricanes, which are relatively easy to predict and the forecasts are probably the best in the world. Also, even the Baltic Sea ferries are routinely designed for unrestricted service so they could and some have been in the past moved to the Caribbean (I think as cruise ships). Ships are routinely sold around the world so vessels are built both for rough service and e.g. North Atlantic transit. Above a certain size it is not difficult to make a ship sea worthy.

[Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party]

There’s weekly services from Rosyth, Scotland to Zeebrugge, Belgium, around a 600 mile journey, and regular ferries from Santander in Spain to Portsmouth, England, around 700 miles. The distances between islands in the Caribbean are tiny compared to some of the distances traveled by ferries in Europe. It also can’t be the weather. The North Sea and Bay of Biscay are hardly known for their calm sailing.

[Floater]

@Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party

There’s weekly services from Rosyth, Scotland to Zeebrugge, Belgium, around a 600 mile journey …

I think there 2 or 3 departures a week. It is primarily intended for lorries and other cargo, but they take private cars as well. IIRC it is also bloody expensive.