Why are we getting dissed by the larger inter-galactic community?

I have responded to this question before, and I am not going to do the math over again, unless someone absolutely refuses to believe that I can’t do arithmetic.

Where are they?

Far far away.

If there are a trillion civilizations in the universe, more or less constantly, and each one expands at the speed of light for ten thousand years average, we can expect the closest one to be a million light years away. On the average. It could be ten times that distance.

We live in a very large universe.

Even if you are a technowhiz, a two million light year round trip is a long way to go to draw graffiti in the grass, and steal a few cow lips.

Tris

“We better get back, cause it’ll be dark soon, and they mostly come at night, mostly.” ~ Newt, Aliens ~

One possible explanation for the lack of contact might be lack of multicellular organisms. Stephen Gould points out in “Wonderful Life” that although primitlve life appeared on Earth almost as soon as it was physically possible for it to exist – going back 3 billion years, give or take a few million years, there’s a gap of 2 billion years between the appearance of the first living organism and the first multicellular organism in the fossil record.

This indicates that making the transition form one-celled organisms to multicellular organisms may be much, much more difficult than anything else living organisms have ever done – including evolving intelligent species. Indeed, the length of time it took multicellular organisms to evolve indicates that it’s damn near impossibly difficult, and that our 2 billion year gap may be an incredible stroke of luck that it happened at all.

If so, there may be huge numbers of planets in space that support life, but only in the form of algal mats or their equivalent. No multicellular organisms, no intelligence, no contact. Simple, really.

Possible reasons as to why we may not have seen them yet:

*It’s too damned far away.
*It’s too damned expensive to be worth the trouble.
*It’s too damned poor of an intellectual exercise to leave one’s solar system, and they don’t want probes to be found.
*Some technological races may not be able to pursue space flight (metal poor planets, heavier gravity, expense, taboos, a permanent cloud cover that never lets them see stars…).
*Very few sentient races may become technically competent enough to accomplish interstellar travel.
*It’s difficult for sentient beings to cross the void for the millennia it might take.
*Perhaps they’re still looking at the data that may take millennia to process and respond to. It’s only gotten really interesting here in the last few centuries.
*They study us silently, perhaps intent to keep us in our own backyard until we learn to play nice.
*We may be among the first technological races to arise.
*"Short cuts” such nano-technology (for reducing the amount of mass needed to send across the void) thus shortening the time of colonization and continuance, prove unfeasible and thus it takes too much damned time to be worthwhile.
*Perhaps they’ve been here and we are them, either as life in general or humankind specifically as in Clarke’s 2001.
*It’s going to take them still another 24 hours to get here.
*Every time one race meets another, they kill each other off and the job never gets finished.
*Can we be certain that we know cosmology and quantum mechanics well enough at this time that we aren’t missing additional problems in traveling between the void? Or are we missing something general not yet recognized, such as a large lensing effect (by all that missing matter) that makes the extra-solar universe seem much smaller to us than it really is?

That last example (especially the lensing part) I kinda pulled out of the air; it’s simply meant to say we still have a hell of a lot to learn, and that other good reasons may become clear later on. But there are many reasons now that second guess why we haven’t seen them yet.

Also I’d love to see a nationally funded SETI program again (under NASA?) which might help us trim down the number of years that initial survey will currently take. Incidentally, Robert Zubrin has suggested a more efficient way to look for life would be to look for telltale signs of trails left by ion or other highly charged drives. These would be left by starships accelerating and braking while traveling the void. Part of doing this however would require making observations outside the atmosphere.

That also makes me wonder, despite strengthening Fermi’s paradox, if such a discovery might also prove the existence of a “magical element” no. 114 with a closed nuclear shell, or some other exotic technology that we can use. Click here and word search Zubrin http://www.stardrive.org/archive.shtml

Don’t you guys watch South Park? The aliens are using Earth as a reality show. Pray for high ratings. :smiley:

Meant to say this would eliminates Fermi’s paradox if we can point to them, or it helps strengthens the arguement if we discover the existence of such “magical” advances by other means. That would make it more likely that we should see them.

It may a combination of A) a very big universe, and B) rare conditions for complex life.

If you take the universe and eliminate all the galaxies that are unsuitable for the formation of life, all the stars that are too young or too short-lived for intelligent life to evolve, all the stars that exist in uninhabitable parts of galaxies where there is too much radiation and too many collisions, and the regions of galaxies that have been hit with radiation from supernovas and such, then you’re left with a smaller ‘inhabitable zone’. Of that, eliminate the stars that didn’t evolve planetary systems, the ones that never wound up with a terrestrial type planet in the habitable region around the star, and you have even fewer.

Of those stars left that can support life, you need to have a habitable planet that evolved complex life, and managed to avoid being hit by a life-ending collision for four billion years. We have no idea how unlikely this is. Perhaps it’s a one-in-a-trillion shot. Perhaps we exist in one of the least-dusty lanes in our galaxy and got very, very likely. Perhaps you need a huge giant like Jupiter in your system to act as a cosmic vacuum cleaner.

Of all the rest that can support complex life, how many wound up without magnetic fields, or with some poor combination of elements or gases, or never developed a climate feedback system to keep temperatures stable, etc? Of the ones that look like Earth, how many developed intelligent life? There may be millions of planets with the equivalent of fish and snakes and deer, but perhaps intelligence it just extremely rare. On Earth, of the billions of species that have ccome and gone, only one became intelligent enough to develop technology. Maybe that was a tremendous fluke.

Of the planets that developed intelligent creatures, how many were driven to develop technology? Perhaps that’s rare as well. If Dolphins were highly intelligent, would they start building machines, or would they gear their intelligence towards singing sonnets to their mates? Perhaps if Humans had had no predators and no need to shelter themselves from the environment or harvest food, we would have evolved our intelligence very differently.

Then of the ones that are left and developing technology, how many survive to our point without wiping themselves out or constantly setting themselves back technologically through war, famine, and disease?

At every step along this chain, we are really clueless about what the numbers are, by orders of magnitude. This is really my problem with ‘scientific’ efforts to determine how many civilizations there are. You can build all the wonderful formulas you want, but if you’re populating them with wild guesses you’re not achieving anything. The formulas are useful in that they help direct our quest for answers, but at this point we can’t even begin to use them to come up with anything resembling reasonable estimates.

Or maybe they caught one of Jack Handey’s “Deep Thoughts” bits on SNL:

Also by Jack Handey:

Yeah, conditions may be rare. The common ingredients for life themselves are plentiful in the universe, but conditions can vary. I’ve also seen Sam’s suggestion that only about one quarter of the galaxy, which our sun orbits within, is likely to be habitable. If I remember correctly, the outermost rim tends to be metal poor and also much further to travel from star to star as they are more spread out there.

Also we live in an unusual solar system; we only have one star. This is uncommon as most solar systems are binary, with still others having even more suns. All revolve around a gravitational center other than a single sun, with those adherant implications. I’d think this might cause enormous fluctuations on the weather, amount of radiation, and tidal pulls the planet experiences. Those tidal pulls might literally shake the core from time to time. On the other hand, any life that could exist under such conditions would be tough as nails.

We also have a large moon; did its regular tidal effects help rush things along? BTW, the moon was once part of this planet, had they not been separated early on, gravity would be too heavy for life as we know it. Nor have we found many extra-solar systems such as ours with our gas giants further away from the sun.

I’ll still accept the idea that life might well be common considering the chemical soup found even in the void and the variety of life found here. Did ours come from tidal vents? A contender for the greatest body of bio-mass on our planet is that found buried miles underground. We know there is a lot of it there, but how much isn’t certain AFAIK. And we know that some bacteria can remain alive and dormant in space for some time.

Nor do I reject panspermia as that would be a likely strategy for us to ‘explore’ should the technology be possible.

Still, technical sentience took 4 billion years to happen on this nice, warm, wet world. And you also need tools to become really advanced. If you’re stuck with Flintstones technology, it takes a lot longer to progress to space flight.

*They’ve got bases all over the world now, you know. They’ve been coming here ever since 1946, when the scientists first started bouncing radar beams off of the moon. And they have been living and working among us in vast quantities ever since. The govenment knows all about them… they don’t have no wars, they got no monetary system, they don’t have any leaders because, I mean, each man is a leader…

Why don’t they reveal themselves to us is because if they did, it would cause a general panic. Now I mean we still have leaders, upon whom we rely for the release of this information. These leaders have decided to repress this information because of the tremendous shock that it would cause to our antiquated systems…*

Do I need to mention which movie that’s from?

Cite for that, please? I know binary systems are common, but that “most” are binary seems unlikely. My googling found this (google cache)

“more than half” seems a far stretch from “most”, and 45 of 100 nearby systems being single stars seems to counter your position that our Sun is “unusual”. But I’m willing to be convinced.

Just off the top I googled and the first thing I came up with wasthis.

Honestly, I took an astronomy class a few years ago and I remember a 2/3 ratio and that’s why I wrote what I did. Even if that is high, nevertheless lots of stars are arguably binary or better. Even were it 1/3, that still might make it more difficult for 1 out of 3 candidates to raise life.

Could you? I can’t place it.

The String Theorists would disagree, but I had pretty much the same reaction to the report. It seems the authors plug their more-or-less arbitrarily-obtained values into the variables of Drake’s equation, simply posit warp drives are feasible, and the rest, of course, follows “naturally”.

We’ve got an N of 1, folks: Earth. You can’t base much of anything off of that, except “life happens”. What we do know is if we assume there are a few advanced civilizations extant in the galaxy, even only one, it’s physically possible for them to give rise to a wave of colonization that envelops the entire galactic disk in only a few million years; so they ought to be in the neighborhood somewhere. Whether they exist, would care to colonize at all, already been and went, are on their way even now, or even live among us as we speak is completely unknown. Probability estimates, even if sound, don’t give you much to work with when you have no data. Given that nearly all UFO sightings recorded have been either faked or explained quite adequately by other more Earthbound phenomena, this paper is most definitely no justification for taking such sightings any more seriously than we have before.

It’s Jack Nicholson in Easy Rider.

That scene was extremely well written, because the stoned philosopher sounds exactly like George Hanson (Nicholson’s character) bogarting a fat doobie. The trouble is, unless you have an exceedingly good-natured sense of humor, it’s extremely irritating and/or exhasperating for the sober to have to listen to someone prattling on like that for any length of time. I’m assuming this is what Frankenstein’s Monster was getting at.

Problematically, if there are any aliens out there, they’re apprently not using radio waves or haven’t been for long. Radio is such a useful band that you’d think someone would borrow it, and once in use there’s no real reason to stop, barring the invocation of magic. You’d figure that unless they simply died out those waves would have been going on for eons upon eons and we’d notice right off.

Of course, it may be that intelligent life is simply unique or nearly so.

But I’m not worried. The Catholic Church has a plan, should we ever meet them, to lauch missionaries across the stars.

And this makes you wonder what kind of religious paradigms that the aliens would have. What if they have missionaries of their own? What if we finally get a visit and it’s the Alpha Centaurian equivalent of Jehova’s Witnesses.

“Greetings. Have you heard the good news about Marquar?”

Well, if you were an alien looking for new species to join your Galactic Union, and you’ve been watching the events of the last 5 years trying to determine if Earthlings are a good addition or not, do you really think having a prominent world leader (a) snub the rest of the world’s leaders, (b) start a war on false pretenses, (c) reject international efforts to clean up planetary pollution, (d) break longstanding treaties in order to militarize space, and (e) refuse to admit any mistakes he’s made – including all of the above – would be a good thing?

The only alien species I can think of that would embrace such “leadership” with open arms are the Ferengi, and I’m not convinced that’d be a good thing for us.

Oh, I see. I’m the last person in the world to have never seen Easy Rider. I hate Jack Nicholson with a passion.

Thought of another idea: It could be possible that aliens first encountered yet a third race, which was very violent. After that, they elected not to visit any more inhabited planets at all, unless they’re greeted again by war. Knowing humanity, I think they’re making the right decision.