That’s an aspect I hadn’t considered. I agree it’s funny.
That is a fantastic idea. The only thing that I really miss about working is the good friends that I made that I don’t get to see as often although we get lunch from time to time. I didn’t want to have a big retirement party but I was sad not to get to say goodbye to my work from home co-workers.
For the past several days since this thread has been in existence, I’ve had this earworm:
Do you honestly not see the difference? In one case I am making the choice to show up early because I gave myself a buffer and I am not putting someone else out. In the other case I am waiting for someone else to be there and they have decided that I have to wait for them. In addition, we could be missing the beginning of a planned event. Again, no one is complaining about being ten minutes late to a casual hangout.
Honestly, the real problem for me is that when I make an agreement with someone, I expect them to keep it unless there are true extenuating circumstances.
Maybe this analogy will make sense. I make a consulting agreement with a company. I tell them that it will take ten hours of my time at a given rate. If I get it done more quickly, they will be fine if I only charge them for nine hours. Assuming that they don’t increase the scope or something, I wouldn’t get away with charging them for twelve hours.
Then I apologize for those also. I have no excuse.
Your whole post made me itch for a “like” button, but I especially liked this part.
I also thought I’d share some specifics on how I manage to stay friends with people who are often late, in case anyone is interested.
-When I got married, I decided to have a cocktail hour before the ceremony. I didn’t care about doing a big reveal with my dress; I enjoyed greeting people as they trickled in, taking photos together, and showing them to the bar, where I had made some liquor infusions that turned out to be very popular. Everyone had a one-hour window during which they could arrive and not be uncomfortably early but also not miss anything. One of my chronically late friends uses a wheelchair, which is part of the reason; he’s less late now that he has a car he can drive than he was when he relied on public transit. I didn’t see him at all during the cocktail hour, but at the start of the ceremony I looked out into the crowd and there he was! And so was everyone else, including my aunt and uncle who missed my cousin’s wedding ceremony because they couldn’t quite get out the door on time (they arrived just as it was ending), and my husband’s co-worker who had a long drive and had warned us he would probably only make it to the reception.
-A good friend of mine is usually about 15 minutes late, give or take 10 minutes. When we plan to meet for dinner, I choose a place with a bar. I arrive on time and put our names on the list, then go get myself a drink and look over the menu. By the time my friend arrives, our table is nearly ready, I’ve got a nice mild buzz, and I know what I want to eat so I’m not stressing with the multi-tasking of trying to make that decision while we catch up. (She’s one of those people who can decide what to order in 3 seconds flat. I’m not.) Bonus: I don’t have to stress about getting there in time; if I hit traffic and I’m 5 minutes late, I’ll probably still beat her. And if I don’t, she’d never give me a hard time.
-As several latecomers have noted, sometimes the problem is they show up too early in an effort not to be late. Parties can be awkward if the first people to show up don’t know each other well. And for some reason, it’s usually the people who are kind of on the outer edges of the circle I’ve invited who tend to show up right on time. So I’ve taken to asking a close friend, someone at the center of the party circle, to come early to “help set up.” I’m not giving them hard labor or anything; more like asking them to pick a Spotify playlist or set out the cheese and crackers or open a bottle of wine. If they arrive before I have my lipstick on, no worries; it’s not awkward because they know they’re early and they’re helping. And between them and their significant other, and me and mine, we’ve got four people already drinking to music by the time the first guest arrives, so no one feels weird.
-Believe it or not, people can be late to Zoom parties. Once I figured that out, I applied the same principle as I did at my wedding and started with a “what’s everyone drinking tonight?” icebreaker, with a plan to start the game a half-hour or so later.
-For concerts and sporting events with reserved seats, I try to get everyone their own tickets and we just meet up in our seats, not outside the venue. If that’s not practical, we meet for dinner hours earlier and then all go in one car. That way, the latecomers only miss the spinach artichoke dip; nobody misses the opening act.
Again, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to decide that someone who’s perpetually late isn’t someone you want to maintain a relationship with. But if you want to try, there are ways to make it more bearable.
Excellent examples!
I don’t think anyone is saying 10 minute late is some kind of mortal sin. That’s just a minor annoyance. I do get aggravated when it’s anything like 30 minutes or more. Especially without any notification that the person is going to be late. I won’t start an activity or chore if I think someone is showing up in a minute or two, but when that “minute or two” continues to add up I feel like my time is being wasted. I don’t want to start something and then have to drop it if the person shows up a minute later. So, I begin to stew and feel resentful. Yeah, I can work on it. But it’s not something I can control any easier than a late person can control being late, but I’m the bad guy. So my way of dealing is to never rely on someone else for transportation, and if I need to be someplace on time, I just go on my own. Great for my peace of mind!
Isaac Asimov called that the platinum rule: Treat others as they want to be treated.
People who are chronically late have been chronically informed that they are late and how that affects the lives of others. So they may not have actively bad intentions but they are demonstrating a willful disregard for others. And this is not some other culture, they are free to go live in some other culture where they won’t be annoying me.
Can you explain how that works? I’m not understanding.
Would you feel different if you made your significant other, family member, best friend, etc. late knowing that it does bother them to be late?
Question for the polychronites in the thread partially based on Thorny Locust’s ‘When you said 10 you didn’t say it was important to leave at 10.’, Little Nemo’s take that some people don’t have buy in when told the time to leave and I may have missed it but I never saw his answer to what if it is the late person that sets the time and Delayed Reflex’s assertion that on-time can be fuzzy for people.
If I say “I need you to take me to a job interview leaving at 10 because my interview is at 10:45 and it takes 35 minutes to get there.” Does that change anything for you in regards of what “on time” means?
YOU want to leave at 10 and tell me that we are leaving at 10. Does that change anything for you in regards of what “on time” means?
In other words, if you are not the sort of person where “10 am means after 10am is late” then does your whole concept on what it means to be late change with the situation? And remember that we are discussing people late for everything. Is there a difference to you in
Being 25 minutes late to work.
Being 25 minutes late to a doctor’s appointment
Being 25 minutes late picking up a friend
Being 25 minutes late to the movies by yourself
?
So what I mean by this is that in order to be on time, I have to put in a lot of prep work in planning out schedules to make sure I can leave on time, and that sometimes leaving on time will mean that I lose momentum on something I am working on that will result in that task taking way longer than it would have if I was able to just finish it off before leaving. As well, it will mean that I can’t start certain tasks before leaving which means that there will often be some idle time which could in theory be used to do something that’s productive (see @Cardigan’s MIL) - eg. “Well I better not start folding laundry since I have to leave in 15 minutes, I might get caught up doing it and end up being late.” I assume that these things apply to most people, but it seems like the people who prioritize punctuality either have no problem dropping things in the middle of what they are doing or have no problem with the idle time, or maybe both. I assume some people build rigorous schedules to make sure they are on time for everything as well, but I am guessing that there are a lot of people who don’t need to set a lot of schedules and reminders and are able to be punctual naturally. I envy them.
Yes, it does, and in fact is a big reason why I am now less late for things now that I’m married, compared to when I was single. My wife dislikes being late for things a lot more than me, but she also struggles with some of the same poor time estimation/management abilities so I put in a lot more effort to be on time for things because I know it is important to her. Nevertheless, it is a struggle, and we will still often show up relatively late for events where neither of us are too fussed about the time (eg. mostly long social events where there is a “show up anytime after Xpm”, but also things like family dinners where our parents might be like “dinner’s at 6!” but we know we won’t be eating anytime earlier than 7:30, etc.). To be fair I don’t think I am among the worst of the chronically late, as I don’t usually miss anything important, except for perhaps the start of pot-luck dinners where I’ll often have to tell my friends group to start without me (because I always, always underestimate how long it takes to cook things - and I hesitate to start earlier because I want the dish to be as “fresh” as possible on arrival).
Yes, they do seem quite different to me. For the above, for example, at my workplace there is the understanding that start times are fuzzy so I generally have no qualms about starting work 25 minutes later than average as long as I don’t have a meeting booked at that time (and would just stay at work 25 minutes later). I am unlikely to be 25 minutes late to a doctor’s appointment or to pick up a friend, but likely would not be too fussed about being 25 minutes late to a movie (more likely, if it was looking like I’d be late I’d just cancel it and see it a different time, or see a different movie). However, the result of me not being late to the doctor’s appointment or picking up a friend likely results in some sort of disruption to my schedule hence for things that I don’t see as a hard deadline, I will be more willing to treat the deadline as a fuzzy target. Times for social events, especially with family, are definitely the fuzziest targets.
Sorry. I thought I had answered it. Perhaps my response wasn’t clear.
I feel this could reasonably be a difference in meanings. Let’s say two people agree to leave at seven. One person interprets this to mean “seven at the very latest and preferably fifteen minutes before seven”. The other person interprets this to mean “around seven, with fifteen minutes before or after seven being close enough”.
So when it’s ten minutes after seven and the first person begins berating the second person for breaking their agreement, the second person feels the accusation is unwarranted. As far as they’re concerned, they are on the schedule the two of them agreed to.
This may seem impossible to you. You’re clearly in the first group of people. But I can assure you there are plenty of people in the second group. People have noted numerous examples of this.
I guess you really are not understanding this at all, which, if you’ve read this thread, brings me to the belief that you feel other people’s social disabilities are of no significance compared to your being put out by them.
Do you think fat people are unaware that they are fat, and just need thin people to point how ugly and lazy they are then they’ll easily get thin? Do you think hoarders just need to have a neatnik point out to them how disgusting their habits have made their living environment and then they’ll be motivated to throw out all their junk?
I’m not saying that people who are chronically late aren’t capable of adding denial of their problem to their difficult behavior, that’s usually part of any habit that is hard to break.
I am somewhat surprised and disappointed by how fanatically unforgiving the time zealots posting here are.
That’s not the same thing at all.
For that analogy to work the fat person would need to be promising to hit a target weight, to avoid sinking a boat, whilst knowing full well that they will not do so. The fault is with the person who makes a commitment with full knowledge it cannot be met.
None of those people are breaking promises they’ve made to me. Chronically late people need to stop promising to be on time. That’s all they have to do.
This isn’t accurate. What they would need to do is admit to themselves that they won’t be on time to your standards, and then admit to you – Standing In Pitiless Judgement Man – that they are bad bad people, and you are right right right.
Try it yourself, see how easy that would be. I am of the opinion that the more chronically late the person is, the more in denial they are, and the more painful it would be.