That kind of implies there are also a lot of people who are NOT able to be on time for doctor’s appointments.
I’m not going to applaud you for not making sacrifices, I’m going to call you selfish, since that’s exactly what it means to be selfish. Selfish friends are lousy friends. Your friend isn’t asking you to make sacrifices for something you think is important, your friend is asking you to make sacrifices for something they think is important, and you are telling them to pound sand. Nice friend.
This thread isn’t drawing in the people I’m referring to. Most of the people I know who are habitually late to an extreme degree have no clue why this happens to them all the time, and if you talk to them about it you get a lot of denial, shame, handwaving, and promises to do better that never are met. In my experience this particular form of lateness is often associated with other kinds of problems associated with executive function and planning, like completing tasks, decluttering, etc. And those issues compound the lateness issue – can’t find your shoes, need to write that email, oh no now there’s no time to take a shower!
You don’t think it’s selfish to insist that other people do things the way you want instead of the way they want?
It certainly can be, except one side is already trying to be unselfish by doing what it takes to be on time, and the other side had decided that other people’s schedules aren’t important.
The thing of it is, I bet the habitually late aren’t any happier with being made to wait than punctual people are. They just make sure other people have to wait instead of them.
There’s no equivalence. You don’t see non-punctual people insisting that other people be non-punctual like they are. They choose to be non-punctual themselves and let other decide if they wish to be punctual or non-punctual. It’s punctual people who you see insisting that other people do things their way.
Mod note: Don’t be such a jerk.
Heh, I expected that mod note yesterday. Better late than never, I guess.
/
The mod note was issued yesterday. This one is for the benefit of the polychronics 
What if I promised to wear a suit and tie when I went to the market with you and you took a bunch of time to look really nice and then I showed up in shorts, a tank top and flip flops?
Being late for a dinner reservation/theater showtime is your business if you are by yourself. If you are meeting a friend for dinner or a show, prioritizing folding laundry and returning emails (to use examples given in this thread) is selfish, and rude to the friend.
This is completely untrue. They literally force those who are punctual to wait and do nothing, until they are equally as late as the non-punctual. If we agree to go to a party at 10, and wind up going at 10:30 because you aren’t ready until 10:30… you forced me to be late.
The entire concept of the punctual being annoyed is that their punctuality is ruined by latecomers. The non-punctual reach out and eliminate the very thing the punctual person was trying to do.
We think it’s selfish to commit to something and then not follow through. I don’t expect people to do what I want them to do. I expect them to, within reason, do what they tell me they are going to do. Again, within reason.
Just yesterday I made plans with two friends. The plan was to show up at my house at around 5:00 and then out to dinner. The dinner reservations were at 7:00. If we were late to the restaurant, we wouldn’t get to eat there. If one of them showed up at 5:30, no one would care. If they showed up late enough that we’d be late to the dinner, we’d have a problem.
The both showed up at 4:50
You continue to be unable to see that you are doing the exact same thing.
Why did you make that promise? Because you chose to wear a suit and tie on your own volition? Because you thought it would make your friend happy? Or because your friend demanded that you wear a suit and tie? Or because your friend incessantly complained about how you were making him look bad by not wearing a suit and tie? Or because your friend suggested you both “wear something good” but didn’t define what he meant by that?
They’re not the same because one person says “I’m going to X” then does X, and the other person says “I’m going to X” then does something completely different. Yes, the first person can also just do whatever they want instead of X, and is trying to screw over their friend by not letting them do whatever they want instead of X. However, the issue is that something was agreed to, and the late person doesn’t follow through.
If you can’t agree to be at a particular somewhere at a particular somewhen, then don’t. Say no.
Other than your last example which is a mutual miscommunication issue, it doesn’t matter. I made a promise to wear a suit and I should. I could have said, I hate wearing suits and I am not going to do that. Or, would you be ok if I wore slacks and a nice button up shirt but no tie or jacket? Or, let’s just go to the market on our own and wear whatever we want and if we run into each other we can chat for a bit.
It is the non punctual who are forcing the punctual to waste time every time they must interact with them.
You can see this repeatedly in this thread. The non punctual aren’t just late, they are unpredictably late. There is no way to interact with such a person without wasting time. It is simply not mathematically possible.
The classic example was our trip to Jamaica. We stayed at a resort that offered a large number of activities included in the price. But if you scheduled those activities they may start and end 15 minutes later or 90 minutes later. So you booked a spa treatment, a horseback ride and a formal dinner in the French restaurant. But the spa is running an hour late, so you have to either skip that or miss the horseback ride which is only running 15 minutes late.
“It’s no problem, we are on Island Standard Time, Mon”
“Yeah it’s a bloody problem, mate! We paid for 11 things and got 7.”
“Why are you shaming us and insulting our culture?”
Unsurprisingly my wife was more pissed than I was.
And what good did it do you, on vacation, to be pissed off at something outside your control? I’m not saying it’s right what happened, or excusing the venue’s behavior, but that’s just not a fun way – for me – to live. So shit didn’t start on time? I was only able to get 7 things out of 11 I paid for. Request a partial refund, or worry about it later, or just consider it a sunk cost and enjoy your time and not waste mental and emotional energy on someone else’s failure.
Then what does 10 mean? This is where the issue lies. 10:00:00am your time zone is an objective statement. You interpret that as subjective where 10am means anywhere from 10am to 10:30 to 10:40 at the latest … OK maybe 10:45. You seem to think the default interpretation of “Be here at 10am” should correspond to YOUR nebulous unspoken subjective interpretation and that somehow stating 10am is not an objective point in time AND that it is my fault for not stating that I mean 10am.
It’s like if the teacher says the answer to 3+4 is 7 and you want to argue that 7 is subjective and it really could be 7.3 or 7.4. Maybe even 7.5 and the teacher is at fault since they didn’t say it was really “3 + 4”. Or to put it another way, someone makes a statement that can be interpreted objectively or subjectively. Why should the default assumption be to interpret it subjectively and not objectively so that everyone can agree to the default interpretation?