I understand when people late to unavoidable circumstances. Shit happens. But if shit happens again and again and again, well, I not going to wait for them to get their shit together anymore.
I’m actually lucky in that my friends don’t do this. One did, but figured out how to be considerate of others. She is my best friend.
This entire thread comes down to being considerate of others. I never demand that anyone meet me at a certain time, I only ask that you adhere to a previous agreement. Or let people know that you can’t.
Have you tried making the agreement that they’ll arrive sometime around 10 but there’s no need to be too precise? As a way of showing consideration to others, and reducing the stress that precise deadlines impose on your friends?
Not sure if that’s directed to me Stanislaus. But sure. when the time doesn’t matter it can be open ended.
For instance, we baby sat a friends dog last weekend. She was coming by Sunday late morning to pick the dog up, and hang out on our deck. Maybe spend the night. She’s in the middle of packing up to move so under a lot of stress and her own time constraints.
I didn’t matter one bit when she arrived, and we would have taken her dog to her if that worked best. I had no other plans that day. She came around noon, and did spend the night.
I’ve always been on time for job interviews because I’ve aimed to get there an hour early, or more if I was getting the train. I’m not willing to do that for a normal work day or ordinary social occasions.
On the other hand, when I plan some errand that doesn’t affect anyone but me, I’m pretty much never on time. I’ll be rushing to get to the shop before it closes, or I’ll have less time to spend at the museum than I wanted, or often enough I decide it’s too late and have to leave my plans for another day.
Some people get fat, or gamble, or become addicted to alcohol. Some struggle with maths, or reading fluently. Some are depressed. Do they all just need to ‘man up’ too? I don’t have problems with most of those things. Some of them I find very easy; probably as easy as you find being on time. But I understand they are not so easy for everyone, and it’s not simple lack of effort.
I’ve been perpetually late for as long as I can remember. I was regularly late for school at 5 or 6 years old, despite my Mum’s best efforts. It’s not something I chose to do.
And I’m actually much better at being on time these days, at least when it affects other people. But it’s taken over 3 decades for me to become minimally competent at something you find trivial. Different people are different and have different problems and need different solutions for them. “Just do it” is almost never helpful advice.
If I start getting ready ten minutes earlier, it just takes me ten minutes longer. Setting my watch a few minutes fast did help, however. What I need to do is trick my brain into thinking I have less time available so I don’t get distracted and slow down.
If it’s a lift to the airport or a job interview or a hospital appointment then of course it does. If it’s a very casual “come by and get your dog when you’re ready” then it obviously doesn’t. But what about something like “I’ll pick you up for our trip to the mall at 10” as mentioned upthread? Is that a firm commitment to 10.00 am precisely? Or is it a “10 or thereabouts”? Are there times when you’d prefer but not require a commitment to punctuality and would tell your unpunctual friends not to sweat it out of consideration for the stress it puts on them?
I ask because when @pulykamell posted about they adjust your own attitude, you replied by saying “of course” but the rest of your post was about how other people either adjust to meet your expectations or you stop waiting for them. Which is the precise opposite of what @pulykamell was saying.
Well yes. In those words that is exactly what that is and I don’t understand why some people are trying to pretend otherwise. “At 10:00” is not the same as “around 10:00” or “10:00 or thereabouts” or “about 10:00” or “10ish.”
Problem is, that I know I set it (or the kitchen clock, or whatever) fast. The best I can do is to forget exactly how fast I set it; which mostly causes me to take time going to check with some other clock that I know is set accurately.
Because, as has been said over and over and over in this thread, there are entire social groups in which “10:00” in that context does mean “somewhere around 10:00”.
If you know the person you’re dealing with is only used to your context, then you don’t need to specify. But I don’t understand why you keep insisting that “I’ll pick you up at 10” in a context in which everyone knows the exact time doesn’t matter means exactly 10:00 to everyone on the planet.
No one but people inventing strawmen and pretending to be obtuse think that “at 10:00” means “exactly 10:00 on the dot and if you are even one minute after you are LAAAAATE!” But neither does “at 10:00” mean “10:30 is fine.” If you literally don’t understand what “at” means, then use your words and ask. If you think “at 10:00=10:30,” that is a failing on your part.
Yeah , if the people who who are saying " I’ll pick you up at 10:00" means “somewhere around 10 " would specify what “around 10” means, it would be a completely different conversation ( both here and in real life). If “around 10” means within five or ten minutes, that’s completely different from “around 10” meaning " I might get there as late as 11:30.” And I have a suspicion that for at least some people that’s exactly why they won’t specify - because they can’t really talk about how unreasonable someone is to expect 10 to mean 10 and having a hissy-fit if the other person arrives even a minute late if they acknowledge that in fact, they frequently seem to consider “around 10” to include 11, as that’s when they arrive.
I can attest to this, for sure. Like I said, in the line of work I do, brides & grooms have told me explicitly that they tell their family “be there at 5 p.m.” when pictures will start at 5:30 or even 5:45. It’s very much dependent on context and culture. Similarly, I have friends where I know “be there at 5 p.m.” means they’ll show up any time between 5 and possibly as late at 5:45. Others I know who will get there 10-15 minutes early. Know your audience.
As far as they directly affect other people in a day to day life, yes. They need to seek help of some kind, or mitigate those behaviors that negatively affect others. That’s just common courtesy. They don’t get a pass to engage in negative behaviors like that just because they have a problem. They may have a reason, but it’s not an excuse.
I want to “like” this post. Sheesh, folks, different social circles have different expectations. And when people travel in multiple succotash circles they sometimes follow the “wrong” set of rules.
“This whole thread is about being considerate of others.”
That is to say, all others except people who inconvenience you. Those people, you are free to loathe, and it’s totally fine to attribute all sorts of nastiness to – selfishness, laziness, lack of whatever you have that makes you superior to them.
Oh, and you may as well include addicts of every kind, those with invisible-to-you mental or social disabilities, people who pick their noses in public, and anyone else whom you judge as unworthy of empathy or compassion. Just knock yourselves fucking out with that.
So this is just another of those “I am a robot. I don’t understand human behavior” threads I guess.