True. AND there are entire social groups that 10:00 mean 9:50 to 10:00. Why do you choose to not be like them?
Nobody is making you hang out with this friend. If timeliness is of such importance, don’t do things with this friend that require timely scheduling. Why is this friend your friend to begin with if it annoys you so much? Nobody is making you do anything – once again, speaking as somebody who is punctual. I have some late friends, and I don’t entrust time-dependent activities to them. If I really thought they were simply selfish assholes, I wouldn’t hang out with them at all. They have other aspects of their personality I enjoy, and being late is just one of their many flaws, like everyone has.
In the OP, I discussed Mrs. Cad and my stepmom. Yeah at this point I wouldn’t expect anything from thorny_locust other than an explanation how it is MY fault he is 20 minutes late so saying forget him if he is always late is no big deal. But I have to deal with people in my family that are habitually late. We have a wedding to go to next weekend. Sure I could say, “You said we are leaving at 11. It is 11 now. I am going. See you whenever you show up.” That would make the day exciting don’t ya think?
I did put my foot down with her that if we are running late because of her, I am not going to go 20 miles over the speed limit, cross the solid line to pass a slow car, or run stale yellow lights to make up the time.
Yeah, pick your battles in that case, and do what you can to mitigate your own emotions – that’s all you can do. As you well know, you can’t change the other person. It’s not fair, but for a happy or less stressful life, I find that’s the only thing that has any chance of working.
And was she like my husband, who didn’t start routinely being late until a few years after we were married? 'Cause if he had been that kind of late before, we never would have gotten married.
That has worked. We are on the same page now with, “Don’t give me shit because YOU are late.” It helps that we are late for her appointments not mine (because I will be on her ass so I’m not late to those) or if a social event, everyone know that if up to me we would have been on time and that we are late because of her.
Nope. It’s entirely possible to deliberately choose to be on time, and expect to be on time, right up to the point at which it becomes utterly clear that one is not going to be on time; which is also the point at which it’s too late to avoid it.
That is utterly clear. You don’t give a damn what your insistence on exact punctuality might be doing to the other person. And you don’t care whether their life gets screwed up otherwise, including that you don’t care whether other people in their lives get screwed over; the only thing that matters to you is whether they showed up at your place on time.
1): No, I didn’t choose the default as 20-30 minutes late. I said the default in my social group would be anywhere from on time to 30 minutes late.
2): So I’ll show up to pick you up sometime between 10 and 10:30; unless we’ve discussed it otherwise. If we discussed it otherwise, and you said we must leave no later than 10:05, I’ll show up sometime between 9:30 and 10.
3): I might think you were rude. If you’d left a message (say, a note on the door, or a message with somebody else in the house) that you couldn’t wait any longer, I’d think we’d had a miscommunication problem, and I’d wonder why you hadn’t told me the timing was urgent. If I just showed up and found nobody there, with no call or text or message, I wouldn’t assume you left because you assumed that my being 10 minutes late was an insult deliberately directed at you. I’d think that either you’d forgotten about the whole thing and hadn’t been home that morning in the first place; or that some emergency had come up and you hadn’t yet had a chance to call me about it; or that you’d gone out for another reason expecting to be back by 10 and were yourself running late and I should wait a while in case you turned up. In any case I’d probably call you to find out what was going on. If I then found out that you’d left at 10:10 in a snit because I wasn’t there yet, I’d conclude that either we had a serious cultural miscommunication and needed to talk this thing out, or you were individually rigid and couldn’t deal with anything unexpected without getting angry and it would be better to avoid you if possible and certainly to not give you rides to the mall.
On the one hand, if we’re late to everything, we get told it’s all the same to us and we don’t care how much it inconveniences others. On the other hand, if we’re only late to some things, we get told that if we ever manage to make it on time to anything then we must be able to always make it on time to everything. Screwed either way.
Why do you not choose to be like us?
Different people live in different ways. Why do you think everyone must live in exactly the same way?
No, it’s not your fault I’m 20 minutes late, and I never said that it was; even if I’m only “late” because of different assumptions about what counts as “late”. It’s your fault that you decided that my being late means I must never give a shit about anybody else.
And I’m not a “he.” Speaking of assumptions.
Actually you did. I’m not going to look up your post but you effectively said that it was on me to explicitly make it clear that when I said 10 I meant 10 (i.e. when I said 10, you don’t automatically assume I mean 10) and lack of me repeatedly instilling that Yes I mean 10, you assume that because of your social group 10 means 10:20 is ok. I mean you did it in you last post didn’t you.
and I’d wonder why you hadn’t told me the timing was urgent.
Because 10 = 10
Because if something is expected to start at 10, it is rude to have other people wait for me.
Because aiming for 9:50-10 means I have a little buffer if things delay me.
Because constantly showing up a little early or on-time give me the pass for that time where due to unforeseen circumstances I’m late to something really important
Let’s see that’s four reasons.
The first two are only another insistence that your group is the only one that’s right.
The third one will often make you rude in social groups in which it’s showing up early that’s impolite.
The fourth one is a personal technique which you apparently need to use in all situations because you can’t tell the difference between the cases in which it is really important to show up by a specified time and the cases in which it isn’t. Recognizing that about yourself, and dealing with it, seems useful. Insisting that there’s no difference in the cases is not useful.
Everybody doesn’t have to live in exactly the same way - but if
- We don’t have a pre-existing context where you agreeing to meet me at 10 really means “somewhere between 10 and 10:30”
and - you might think I’m rude for leaving at 10:10
because - I should have told you that that timing was urgent
it seems that you are expecting me to live in exactly your way.
The only time that was ever mentioned was 10 - it was entirely possible for you to have not agreed to pick me up at 10, but rather to have agreed to pick me up somewhere between 10 and 10:30. But somehow, it was not incumbent on you to tell me that - it was on me to tell you that the only time that was mentioned is the time I will be expecting you.
I agree to be somewhere “between 10 and 10:30 all the time” all the time, sometimes with even more than 30 minutes leeway - and if the agreement (even if unspoken and based strictly on context) is to meet between 10 and 11 then nobody is late until it’s past 11. Which is why I’m wondering how you are “late” in a social group that considers “on-time” to be anywhere up to 30 minutes past the agreed-upon time - in that sort of situation you wouldn’t be considered late until 30 minutes past the meeting time. So are you arriving within 30 minutes of the meeting time and no one considers you late - or are you arriving even later than that and the others in your social group do consider you late? Because if the people you are meeting don’t consider you late, then you aren’t late - and if you arrive late enough that your social group considers you late , the fact that they allow 30 minutes of leeway doesn’t matter if you arrive later than that.
This isn’t anyone’s fault. Or it’s everyone’s fault. I would call this a communication failure, and i believe that the burden of communicating clearly falls on both parties.
For the record, because i travel in circles where people are “on time”, and also in circles where they aren’t, i make some effort to communicate what degree of timeliness is expected, especially in new situations or with new-to-me people.
And there are things i choose not to do with people who must always be exactly on time, because it’s just going to be stressful for both of us.
Granted. Both I and the other person ought to be responsible for clearly communicating what “I’ll pick you up at 10:00 means”; and I shouldn’t assume that the social rules common among most people I deal with apply to everybody, and in particular shouldn’t assume that they apply to people who I just met and don’t know much about.
But what I’m getting, from some people here, isn’t ‘you’d be just as responsible for this miscommunication as I would’; it’s ‘I’m doing it right and everybody doing something else is just Wrong.’
I’m not late according to that group in those situations. I’m late according to those in this thread who are insisting that we all ought to be like them, and that social groups in which ‘come to dinner at 6’ means ‘show up sometime between 6:10 and 6:30 and nobody’s really going to notice unless you’re not there by 7’ are somehow Doing It Wrong.
And I am often late to such things as meetings that announced a start time of 10:00 (and then IME very often actually start at 10:10 or so, though I may myself be later than that), when my being late doesn’t screw anybody up except possibly myself; or to do errands with the result that some of the places I meant to go are closed by the time that I’d get there.
BBC has an interesting piece on this.
They mention the Big Five Personality Traits. Punctuality is important to people who index high on Conscientiousness.
We have a new boss at work (about 15 months ago). When she first came on board she had an offsite meeting where some consultant gave the leadership team (me included) this personality assessment. I indexed really high on Conscientiousness. She was at the very other end.
We both scored high on Openness to Experience. She said this would be useful because many things were going to change. We work in Finance & Accounting in a subsidiary of a larger company. Our lives revolve around deadlines and specifications from the parent company’s finance team.
Thanks to her complete disregard for deadlines and “other bureaucratic bullshit” we are chronically working overnight and weekends because she allows other executives to miss deadlines that we set. And the “creative” people she brought in are just as arrogant.
Couldn’t you have posted this sooner?
Too late.
Solid.
Why am I always late?
Because I don’t care enough about other people.
(Seriously, if I DO happen to leave the house on time, I can always try to squeeze in an errand on the way, or just stop really quick and see if the used bookstore got that book I requested in and really it’ll only take thirty seconds but now it’s ten minutes later and I’m late again…)
BUT, thanks to this thread, I had to drive to a meeting in a Weirdass Rural Town, and I left forty-five minutes earlier than I had to.
Didn’t get breakfast on the way, passed by a huge flea market in a barn and didn’t stop, made great time and got to Weirdass Rural Town an hour early.
As I googled “Best bacon & eggs in Weirdass Rural Town”, I thought “WHAT is this relaxed, zen feeling? I could get used to this lack of adrenaline…”
This story on All Things Considered yesterday reminded me of this thread.
I thought the part about how some people schedule their lives around “clock time” while others go be “event time” interesting. Someone who goes by clock time might eat lunch at 12:00 every day, because 12:00 is lunch time. Whereas the person who goes by event time eats lunch when they’re hungry, regardless of what time it is.
Me too. I had that page hanging around open because I was going to find this thread and post it. Thanks for doing that!
I guess I would be an “event time” kinda guy. And the reason I tend to be late a lot is the same reason I’m terrible at budgeting – I’m inherently an optimist and make excessively optimistic predictions about everything from how much time it will take to get somewhere to how much money I will need for things. I don’t formally have a financial budget, but my annual expenditures tend to be two or three times what I implicitly think they will be. I guess it all comes down to poor planning skills. Strangely, as a project manager I could do realistic budgeting and MS Project schedules with the best of them. It’s planning in my personal life that sucks.