I wear hearing aids because my hearing sucks. I mostly do this for other people (mostly I wear them for my wife). Especially that I now work from home.
For working from home I bought a new computer system that works better than what I have in my brick and mortor office space.
Also bought headphones with microphones for Zoom meetings. I’ve got three pair now.
My eyes had gone to crap too. But I fixed it. Cataract surgery is wonderful. Very clear now.
I had my hip replaced because it was causing me grief. My bothers Wife won’t do it, and now does not leave their house, causing my brother grief. He has to do everything.
I have one cousin that has cataracts that are just getting worse. But will not get it fixed. So she depends on her sister for everything. She won’t even talk about getting her eyes fixed. Fear I suppose. But she is screwing up her sisters life. Big time.
I truly understand that peoples minds work differently. Playing games with my wife it’s clear that she’s better with numbers, and I strategy (Chess and Cribbage mostly). My Wife is a property appraiser, I’m a programmer. Makes sense.
My mother passed in October. She had a good run at 93 years old. But she did everything she could to remove burdens placed on others. Being constantly late is a burden that is placed on others.
I’d even accept Step 1:
If you are chronically late and still sitting on the toilet unshowered and unclothed (again), do not get indignant/pissed that the person you are making late too reminds you that you have to leave in 20 minutes.
Yeah, the pushback by trying to get the always-late person out of the house makes the problem even worse. I sometimes dread making plans with other people that are time dependent. I have to worry about whose feelings I’m going to end up hurting. Do I make my always-late family member mad by trying to get them to leave on time? Or do I make my friends mad for showing up late? Or maybe both? I don’t mind watching the clock to ensure everyone leaves the house on time, but the negative attitude of the always-late person to leave on time adds another level of frustration to being late.
Late comers understand that. I sometimes have lunch on my day off with a friend who works that day. I go to her house so she doesn’t have to spend the travel time. Sometimes I’m late. She’s going to kick me out at the same time, no matter when i arrive, so she can get back to work.
If my being ten minutes late to pick you up is a deal breaker, then let’s not make time sensitive plans together. No hard feelings. I would never rely on my brother to get me to the airport because where i might find that hard, i think he’s actually incapable of being on time. I do invite him to Thanksgiving, and we just don’t sit down until he arrives.
I don’t think I’m the person y’all are mad at. If i offer you a ride to that dance that’s an hour away, we’ll build in some extra time because i might be late. And i might be 5 or 10 minutes late, but I’ll get to to the dance in time to hang up your coat, change your shoes, and say “hi” to everyone before we start. If I’m late to a movie it means i miss some of the previews, or maybe i miss buying popcorn. But I’ll be seated quietly with my phone off before the actual show begins. (Movies are GREAT. There’s like half an hour when you can arrive, and if you are early in that range, you can sit in a comfy seat and be entertained until the show actually starts.)
But i think some of you are unreasonably angry, and feel insulted, because you are attributing malice (or “don’t give a shit”) to someone failing to do stuff that’s much easier for you than for them. If someone makes plans with you it’s because they want to spend time with you, they aren’t just creating an excuse to dis you.
That doesn’t work all of the time. Mrs Cad and I are on the same flight. The kids said dinner is at 6. The movie for date night starts at 7:35. There are time where you have t have time-sensitive plans with someone.
One brother will show up at 5:55. My sister will show up at 6:30 with food that needs to be heated. My other brother will show up at 7:30. We’ll eat at 7:45. (And yes, I’ve considered telling them all different times, but it’s not worth it.)
You can get to the movie at some point during the previews.
You never met one of my ex-girlfriends. She didn’t give a shit. I talked about her enough when this thread was first started. We broke up largely over that. Ten years later we are still friendly and she is very apologetic about how she was to everyone back then. She claims that she’s changed.
That’s fine. And I think this is about understanding or misunderstanding.
A question for people that are chronically late, can you follow a recipe that requires a cooking time? Maybe 2-4 dishes? Can that be planned? Do you set timers?
I generally know when time is ‘up’. But I sure do set timers. I might space it out ruining a meal. But if I have something in the oven, and water trying to boil and something that needs to be sautéed real quick I’ll set a timer/s to get everything put together.
Not only do i set timers, i write up a project plan if it’s at all complicated. But i also cook most things “until done” rather than by the clock. Cakes smell different when they are done. I can watch TV in the next room and keep my nose on the progress of the cake. Rice, roasts, and many other food can be started on high and then turned down low, making the ending time very flexible. I’ll prep the veggies and put them in the microwave, but not turn it on until the roast is done and resting.
Maybe some people are, in some circumstances - but it’s hard to imagine anything nicer than “don’t give a shit” in certain circumstances. I think I mentioned way earlier in this thread a situation I know of, where someone asked for a ride on a six hour trip. When the driver arrived , the people he was picking up were still asleep. Now anyone can oversleep - but they also hadn’t packed. I’m not entirely sure what makes it impossible for someone to pack on Wednesday (or earlier) when they know they are leaving early Thursday morning but whatever. Then they had to take showers- because that’s how much they didn’t give a shit. They couldn’t even skip the showers for now while someone has already been waiting on the street for them for nearly an hour. ( no legal parking space, so he had to wait in the car)
And about those time-sensitive plans - I think @Saint_Cad was referring to the fact that you cannot always avoid having time-sensitive plans with another person. Sure , if you being ten minutes late to pick me up is going to be a dealbreaker we don’t have to make time-sensitive plans together * . But that doesn’t really work if my husband and I are taking the same flight and he doesn’t start to get dressed until it’s actually time to leave to ensure we make the flight or we are supposed to be at the kid’s house for dinner in time to sit down for dinner at 6 and when we get there at 7:30 , dinner is over and the grandchildren have gone to bed or the movie starts at 7:35 and we get there after the movie has already started.
I don’t think you are the person anyone is mad at , and I think maybe you don’t even understand what it is people are mad at - I don’t think anyone is that mad at the person who gets to the movie in time to do whatever needs to be done ( buy snacks, use the restroom, ) and still be in the seats at some point during the preview. (maybe a little, because they are still taking a chance) But who people are really mad at are the ones who get there ten minutes after the movie started. They exist, I’m sure you aren’t one of them but they do. And if you are married to one of them , it’s a little difficult to avoid making time sensitive pans with them - do I leave for the airport while my husband is still getting ready ? Does a couple travel to a movie separately and end up sitting separately - then why bother going to the same movie at all ?
* Although you picking me up ten minutes ;late to go to the mall wouldn’t bother me at all . I’m at home and can do something with those ten minutes unlike if I was picking you up and had to wait ten minutes.
This thread is the same things repeated endlessly and there’s no hearing and no understanding.
ArgumentOne comes off as uptight, judgmental, and above all, self-righteously angry. Thinks their way of living is the only right way, and everyone else should be corrected, shamed, even punished, until they fix themselves and live the Only Right Way, no matter if it takes ice baths and perhaps daily flogging.
CounterArgumentTwo comes off as hapless, incoherent, inept, and pathetically incapable of committing themselves to the Only Right Way. ArgumentOne refuses to consider them as anything except too selfish to put in the work it takes to come up to the standards of ArgumentOne.
I always take the side of the oppressed and misjudged, which is clearly Person Two, no matter how victimized ArgumentOne likes to think they are. This is my nature.
I’m generally on time, by the way. But I don’t find standing in judgement on those who are late furthers the serenity and compassion I always am striving for. Quite the opposite.
That sounds like a significant executive function disorder, honestly. And i wouldn’t be making plans with them. Not because they are being rude or dismissive, but because it’s just going to be too much of a hassle for me to deal with them.
And i have a couple of friends like that, and i don’t make plans with them. Fine people in other ways. One of them seems to be out of work a lot, too, and i suspect it’s related. I sometimes subsidize stuff we do together, because i like him. But no, i don’t depend on him to get me some place.
Cool. So we cook the same way. I always get everything ready, and will sit down to work or watch Seinfeld or some such thing. And either internally or externally (my phone now a days) will tell me that I had best check it. Fine.
The same thing applies to meeting people. I’ll make a plan and know that I need to leave by x time to do so. I don’t need a timer for that. 1pm is 1pm. If the weather is bad. Oh oh. I’ll leave at 12:45.
Nike had a famous advertising about this. “Just Do It”. If a person can cook dinner, they should be able to be able to be on time to meet a friend, Doctor or whatever.
If I screw up dinner, it only affects me and my wife. Late to the doctor can screw up other schedules. Late to lunch can also screw up other peoples plans.
Should I stay and wait, or should I go?
Another saying is that “Shit Happens” it happens to all of us. ‘On timers’ certainly understand that. But shit doesn’t happen all the time.
I’m lucky in that in the circle I run in, it just does not happen. We don’t do that to each other.
This is a completely real question - I can buy that perhaps some executive function disorder kept them from packing the day before and maybe one even prevented them from skipping the shower when someone has already been waiting an hour. What I don’t get is why some people with this issue do not themselves decide not to make plans with people. Take the people I’m talking about - that couldn’t possibly have been the first time they overslept. (They were in their mid-fifties and I doubt anybody gets to that age without ever oversleeping) It probably wasn’t even the first time they overslept and got a late start because they didn’t pack the day before. So why would they ask someone to pick them up and give them a ride rather than taking a bus or a train or even taking a cab to the driver’s house so that if they were late, he could wait at his own home? There isn’t really even any neutral explanation for that - best case scenario is that they didn’t even think about the possibility that they would leave the driver waiting, but that’s pretty much the definition of “thoughtless”.
( as for why the driver agreed, it was a large group of people going on this trip and the driver and passenger didn’t know each other well enough for the driver to expect this)
In this culture, it really isn’t okay to say “I have a lot of trouble getting to places on time consistently so please allow for that with me.” Now, is it?
People promise what they are expected to promise, not necessarily what they can always deliver.
It is also a large part of some kinds of executive function issues that one always believes that THIS time it will be different, you will be different. If you have a problem that society despises, you are very apt to lie about it to yourself and to others, because you’ll be shamed for it.
Absolutely because there are some times in life that a person should, or even needs to, be on time.
Planes, job interviews, professional appointments, commitments like “I’ll pick you up at X o’clock.”, etc. And what the people on the Two side of the argument refuse to acknowledge is that those times exist. Instead the response is, “I’m always late because that’s who I am and fuck you. I give zero cares how my lateness affects you.” and (here is the important point) make absolutely no attempt change how they do things to be on-time.
Now, there are people that have time-perception issues and executive management has come up But here’s the thing about that, if you truly have a disability then you can’t use it as an excuse to not be on time but rather have to work harder to be on time. Yes it suck but that is reality. I have a really bad knee but let’s say I commit to walk with you on a guided city tour. I am going to walk through the discomfort and eventual pain (both walking and at home recuperating) and if I physically cannot walk anymore and have to sit making you miss out on part of the tour, I am going to feel like crap and apologize to you ad nauseum. Does it suck that I have to work harder than a ‘normie’? Yes it does but I’m not going to use my bum knee as an excuse and be completely unempathetic to you.
And I think that last part is critical. For those of us that are inconvenienced by the habitual laters, how often to they give a heartfelt apology, or even a lip-service one? Do they say, “I’m sorry I made us miss the first 10 minutes of the movie.”? The vet appointment is cancelled because we were more than 15 minutes late - I may hear “Stupid vet!” or an excuse or failure to acknowledge that I had to drive 30 minutes for now no reason and need to remake the appointment. But no, “Sorry. Mea culpa.” And you wonder why our impression is you don’t care at all how your lateness affected us.