Why aren't Military Ranks all the same?

Having served in both the US Army and the US Navy, I’m well aware of that. :slight_smile:

Yes - though I believe it would be unusual to have more than one (that one would be Chief of Staff).

Gomer was later commended for following orders, and Sgt. Carter as well for having trained him so well.

What do you mean it wasn’t a documentary? I think you are mistaken.

Not so unusual. Take, for example, a Carrier Battle Group of the late 1980s. You could have the following folks, all of the rank of Captain:

[ul][li]Ship’s Company Commanding Officer.[/li][li]Carrier Air Wing Commanding Officer.[/li][li]Chief Engineer.[/li][li]Battle Group Commander.[/li][*]Various other embarked command’s commanding officers.[/ul]

Also, on lesser craft the “Captain” may be a Lieutenant or other grade below O-6. He would likely be addressed as “Skipper”.

It’s worthwhile remembering that in the Navy “Captain” can be a title as well as a rank. On a small and comparatively unimportant ship the commanding officer may only be a Lieutenant, but is still entitled to be treated as the Captain of his ship, and should be formally addressed as Captain So-and-so. (A good example of this was JFK, who was only a lieutenant but was the Captain of his boat, the PT-109.)

When he leaves his ship and goes to the officers’ club he is just another Lieutenant, and generally gets no respect from higher officers, even ones who are not themselves commanders of ships.

Further, the only Captains who are actually captains of ships generally command big, important ships, such as aircraft carriers, cruisers, battleships (back in the day) and large supply and support vessels. Also, I think commanders of nuclear missile boats are of the rank of captain.

More knowledgable Navy types are welcome to add to this or nitpick as they see fit.

[quote=“Monty, post:44, topic:551549”]

Not so unusual. Take, for example, a Carrier Battle Group of the late 1980s. You could have the following folks, all of the rank of Captain:

[ul][li]Ship’s Company Commanding Officer.[/li][li]Carrier Air Wing Commanding Officer.[/li][li]Chief Engineer.[/li][li]Battle Group Commander.[/li][li]Various other embarked command’s commanding officers.[/ul][/li][/QUOTE]

When my son was on the connie the senior medical officer (SMO) was a captian. and I believe he also told me the XO was also a captian.

Is the rank of “commodore” ever officially used any more?

Other countries yes, but not the US Navy at present (or the Coast Guard). O-7 is designated Rear Admiral, Lower Half which always sounded like the result of a horrible industrial accident to me.

I read an anecdote – it might even be true – about a Lt. Colonel who was addressed all evening at a party as “Lieutenant” by a dowager with more status than military knowledge. He said later he didn’t mind but would love to be around when she was introduced to a Rear Admiral.

<Colbert> That was your first mistake. You should have followed your gut. </Colbert>

Thai uses the same ranks for all services, incl. Police, roughly translated as
O10 - General, 1st
O9 - General, 2nd
O8 - General, 3rd
O7 - General 4th,
O6 - Boss Thousand, 1st
O5 - Boss Thousand, 2nd
O4 - Boss Thousand, 3rd
O3 - Boss Hundred, 1st
O2 - Boss Hundred, 2nd
O1 - Boss Hundred, 3rd

I’m so lazy I don’t even know all the months (*), so it startles my friends that I know officer ranks, but as you can see it’s really easy. (Sergeants, BTW, are “Boss Ten.”)

Just watched Green Zone with Thai voice. Officers call Matt Damon “Chief” (translated to the Thai word for “leader”), possibly confusing Thai viewers, as Damon was just a Chief Warrant Officer.

(* - though I do know the 31-day month words end in “pan”, while 3-day and shorter months end in “kom”, which seems convenient.)

The main problem with the Air Force’s enlisted ranks is that they change them around from time to time. Or they change the insignia.

When I was a kid (Air Force brat), I learned all the AF ranks. The E-2, E-3 and E-4 grades were called Airman Third, Second, and First Class respectively. The fact that they counted down as you went up caused some confusion, so maybe that’s why they changed them. After going to college, I joined the Air Guard and find that these grades are now Airman, Airman First Class and Senior Airman/Sergeant. The insignia changed a bit. The star in the center of the insignia is now blue (except for Sergeant) instead of white.

After a number of years in the Guard, I leave. Several years later I go back to visit my old unit and find that they’ve changed the Master Sergeant insignia. Now it has a tent (chevron) on top instead of a third stripe below the star. This was back in the 90s, so they may have changed things again since then. Hope not – they need to settle on one set and stick with them.

The Israeli military, which was founded more or less from scratch in 1948, decided to keep things simple by having the same ranks and insignia throughout its services. However, when translating names to English, they try to conform with western raks; that means that if Aluf Cohen of the army and Aluf Levi of the navy visit the U.S., they’ll be introduced to the American counterparts as General Cohen and Admiral Levi.

(“Aluf”, incidentally, means “Champion”; Israel’s sole Lt. General is called “Rav-Aluf”, or “High Champion”, possibly the most awesome rank ever.)

The previous comment regarding rank equivalency between military and civilian ranks reminded me of a moment I encountered as a contractor with a Federal law enforcement agency. A National Guard Lt. insisted that I implement an unacceptable data transmission process for wiretaps; wiretap data are treated, basically, as classified (you never know what you’re going to hear) - no way I’m sending that shit out over the “dirty” internet. Upon my refusal, he got his Major involved, and I appealed to the Tech supervisor (a Colonel in the Reserves).

All concerned parties marched into the office of the (jerkoff) Assistant Special Agent in Charge, who insisted that we defer to the major because of his rank. My Tech Super (a tough, and awesome bitch, and very intelligent) essentially responded with,“I’m superceding his order. I’m a Lt. Col. I have rank here.” Case closed, my ass saved, and data protected. Triple win.

It can get really bad in the navy when addressing enlisted ranks. E1 - E3 are just Seaman/Fireman/Airman/Constructionman. For E4 through E6, however, its common to address by either a simple ‘Petty Officer Soandso’ with no mention of rank, or the much more esoteric rank and rating. Sometimes I’d be addressed as Petty Officer Anderson, and other times MM2(Each digit pronounced, so Em Em Two) Anderson, and still other times Petty Officer 2nd Class Anderson, or Machinists Mate 2nd Class Anderson.

All of which wouldn’t be bad except theres damned near 100 enlisted ratings in the navy.

“Private Pyle you are definitely born again hard! Hell I may even allow you to serve as a rifleman in my beloved Corps.”

“I will motivate you Private Pyle, if it short-dicks every cannibal in the Congo!”

Does the size of the ship out rank another smaller ship regarding a Captain’s Ranking, if that makes sense?

Air craft carrier is bigger than a Tugboat, so would the Aircraft carrier captain be More Important than the Tugboat captain? ( I would think so because of all the intricacies involved running a carrier.) I am wondering this because I guy I know back in the day is a submarine captain and I am wondering what level of badass he is.

Does any of this make sense?

In the U.S. military, they basically do. Someone linked to a chart earlier showing the different paygrades–this link shows all of the insignia for officers, which are identical across the services (except that Navy and Coast Guard dress uniforms also use a system of sleeve stripes and shoulder boards with stripes).

Funny anecdote: back when I was Ensign, I was traveling in uniform on an Air Force space-available flight. On a stopover in the Azores, the civilian working the desk kept calling me “Admiral,” apparently confused by the large single star on my shoulder boards. :smiley: (It was more than a little silly since I was just 23 years old at the time.) (The star actually indicated that I was a line officer, as opposed to a staff corps officer–the single stripe meant that I was an Ensign.) I corrected him about a half-dozen times, but I was still put on the flight first. :wink:

I know the actual particulars in the episode differed from this scenario, but in general, the rule is that a servicemember follows orders in his direct chain of command. This is because the orders are assumed to flow down the whole chain of command, which means that the ultimate source of authority for the orders are the base/unit commander, who certainly outranks some random lieutenant.

Also, there is generally an administrative chain-of-command, and an on-duty chain of command. For example, in port, the sailor guarding a submarine is referred to as the “Topside Watch.” This sailor reports to the “Duty Chief Petty Officer,” who reports to the “Ship’s Duty Officer,” who reports to the ship’s Commanding Officer (CO). If someone not on duty tries to counteract the orders of the topside watch, the sailor is not obligated to follow these orders.

For superiors (as you well know), all you have really have to do is to be able to recognize the person’s gender, because “Good morning/afternooon/evening, Sir/Ma’am” works in all cases.

Way back when when I was a brand new Navy officer, I had a lot more trouble properly addressing enlisted personnel. I quickly learned that “Chief” was an acceptable address for a Chief Petty Officer, but not at all acceptable for a Senior Chief Petty Officer or a Master Chief Petty Officer. (They are referred to as “Senior Chief” and “Master Chief,” respectively.) It was very important to be able pick out those star(s) at the top of the CPO insignia, I found.

I learned the Navy enlisted grades, of course, but never could keep Army, Air Force, and Marine enlisted grades straight.

The commanding officer of an aircraft carrier would be a senior Captain (O-6). A submarine is commanded by a Commander (O-5).

Their formal title is the ship’s Commanding Officer (CO). Informally, they are both referred to as the ship’s captain.

Tugboats don’t have commanding officers. They are generally run by civilians.

My dad retired as an Air Force Master Sergeant in the 1970’s. His last assignment was First Sergeant. There’s only one in the squadron and he reported directly to the base commander.

Dad said in the Army & Marines First Sergeant is a rank. Similar duties.