This is completely anecdotal but I seem to remember reading that the whole electronic signature pad thing has more to do with proving you entered into a legal agreement to pay the credit card company back than it does to prevent fraud. IOW there isn’t and has never been any sort of ‘handwriting recognition’ software applied to those electronic pads to compare it to something they have on file. It’s merely you ‘making your mark’ to legally signify you understand & agree that you are ‘borrowing’ this money. It gives the credit card company more legal elbow-room if you default on payment. That’s also why they let it slide for small purchases.
It’s similar to clicking the check box on a piece of software’s license agreement.
And for the record, I live in NY State and I have yet to hear anything from my bank regarding the new chip cards. I’m still swiping everywhere…
I have a credit and debit card, both replaced recently, both with chips. About an hour ago I got lunch at a sandwich place and swiped my debit card in a new card reader they have. The reader said my card couldn’t be swiped because it had a chip. So I instead stuck my card in a slot and had to tap a bunch of menu buttons (confirm price, choose tip amount, agree to the transfer) then scribble a clumsy signature with my finger.
I miss just swiping my card and typing my PIN.
To the OP… I did cashier work many times at a few retail jobs (back in the 90s) and did sometimes check a signature against what’s on a check and/or driver’s license but it was rare. It’s not like I’m a handwriting expert. For the most part if the name on an ID matches what’s on a license and the picture on the license looks close enough to the customer then it seems legit. I was more likely to be suspicious about a person’s behavior or tampering with a product (especially price tags) than their card. You may have over a hundred transactions in a day, things get pretty routine fast.
Is this not the same menu you would get with swiping? There’s only a couple of places where the damned chip reader actually is functional in my neck of the woods, and there’s no difference in the interface I’ve seen between swiping and using the chip other than the way you insert the card.
His/her post does say that transaction for lunch today was a debit. Should have been a PIN and not a signature. Maybe it was a new system bug they’ll work out.
I have always been puzzled at why people do this. First, your method helps only if your actual physical card is stolen. Second, it doesn’t help you. If your card is stolen and you report the theft, you are liable for $0 of the fraudulent use. Even if you don’t report the theft, federal law limits your liability to $50. (If your card number is stolen from a database but they never took your card, you are liable for $0.) And most banks don’t hold you liable at all.
And most credit card fraud is not the result of stealing the physical card. If your card number was hacked from the Target database, it doesn’t matter what you write on the back of the card in your wallet.
The credit card associations (VISA, MasterCard, etc.) generally prohibit merchants from accepting cards if there is no signature on the back. Apparently many merchants do it anyway such as in your case, but in such a case the merchant is accepting the risk of fraud. Also merchants are generally prohibited from asking for ID, but many do it anyway. It doesn’t help them either. If they produce a slip with a signature that matches the one on the card, the bank takes the liability. If the merchant can’t produce that, the association doesn’t care about what ID they saw.
I managed a payment and billing system for a large company for a few years (>10M customers) and became very familiar with the contracts we had with the associations. However, that doesn’t mean all contracts are the same.
Your signature on your credit card is your signature that you agree to pay the charges you accrue on that card.
If you don’t intend to pay off your debts, you shouldn’t sign the card, and merchants shouldn’t accept it. If they do accept it, they are taking their own chance: it’s always been a bit more difficult to enforce debts without a signed contract.
Sure but if the consumer disputes the charge with a chargeback and you the merchant don’t have a valid signature matching the card then it is likely that you will eat the cost.
I’m Australian, and signatures on cards have been completely stopped here in the last year or so. If its under 100 bucks, its paywave or chip insert with no PIN required. If its over 100, you can paywave or insert or swipe the card, but then just have to do your PIN. Easy and secure. Banks choose to have no PIN for under 100 bucks, so they can deal with the consequences if fraud occurs.
However I recently got back from a 3 week trip to the US, where signatures seem to be all the rage still. I haven’t even signed my AMEX as its not a thing in Aus, and amusingly i noticed at least 10 times different vendors made a bit of a show of looking at the back of my card then at the signature as if they were verifying it. Verifying the blank panel against my random scrawl… ? Not a single rejection over 3 weeks of travel anyway
great security, it is. Might as well just bite the bullet and scrap the useless outdated system.
Agree it’s a dumb mess in the US now. But it is being scrapped. The challenge is that they’ve just started to do so and it’ll take 5+ years to update the whole damn country and all the customers.
My bet is somewhere along the way they’ll discover they picked a half-assed solution and need to do a second complete replacement. Said another way, badguy tech is moving faster than they can agree on what the goodguy tech ought to be, much less force their chosen compromise changes on unwilling merchants & consumers.
FYI, there are roughly one billion credit cards in use in the USA right now. It’s a big job to replace them all and retrain the 200+million users.
Agreed it is a big job. Though - how long between card issue and card expiry in the US typically? My credit cards are typically 2 years long. So at T+2 years, every card in the country will have had the opportunity to be replaced. They just need to stop issuing cards without paywave and chip capability ASAP. They have had years of notice already, after all… really should’ve been doing it 24 months ago.
And then the merchants get the same 2-3 years to update their hardware. Keeping in mind, the new cards will still work with the old hardware so its not a big deal if some smaller merchants take a bit of time to update due to capital restraints. But really, its not that hard to get some new P.O.S machines, if you are a big business it decreases your service times and therefore is sensible immediately, if you are a small business its probably only one or two P.O.S machines so also not a big deal.
Can’t really see any practical reason why it hasn’t already been done, or why it can’t be done in short order. There is no training required, just stick a little plastic sign next to the machine. Maybe a few ads on a few busses and a half assed TV commercial run.
On a sidenote… Is the average number of credit cards per US user really 5??? Or is that 1 billion cards comment off the cuff?
oh, apologies, I didn’t realise that. I didn’t encounter a single one on my visit so assumed it wasn’t available widely at all. I was only on the north east coast area though.
I just received my first chip-and-PIN card last week. It’s a business card, which I use mostly for online purchases, but if I travel, I will use it. Be interesting to see how widely use the chip readers will be.
“They” is several thousand separate institutions. As I understand it, the American banking system is much less centralized than in other countries, with many more banks per capita. Herding all those cats is hard, so we have antique credit cards and we still write checks.
When I’ve used the chip card at Target, it requires putting it in a slot for what seems a long time (at least compared to the time needed to swipe a card). So if a merchant does a lot of small quick transactions (a convenience store, perhaps, or a fast food restaurant), this could slow things down.
I got my first credit card in 1978. I have never (well almost never) signed the back of my cards. I have never in my life been challenged or denied the use of a card for lack of signature.
IMHO, signing the card is a bad idea for the user. It simply gives a thief a guide to impersonate my signature. I ALWAYS try hard to sign the CC receipt with a legible signature that looks like my normal signature. I believe that by so doing, the CC company will be much less likely to be able to claim a false scribble signature is in fact mine. I have never understood those people that just scribble on the signature pad, which is always accepted. The CC company now has a historical record that any scribble is yours and you will be in a much weaker position to argue that it wasn’t you that purchased that diamond ring. Not that such a thing ever happens. CC fraud in the US is, compared to the CC fees collected, a relatively minor issue and few companies argue once a purchase is completed.
And how would the CC company determine that? They would have to obtain the card used in the actual transaction and compare signatures. I can’t imagine any CC company even attempting such a time-consuming and futile effort.
The best way to protect yourself from credit card fraud, is for you to check your own statements against the charges you actually made. You have a number of days (normally 90) to alert your financial institution of fraudulent transactions. The financial institution then compares the signature if it is available to verify that you aren’t just trying to claim something’s fraudulent that you actually purchased. If it is determined that you actually were defrauded, then you don’t owe anything, they will bear the cost.
