you with the face is correct- if you need “proof”, go to the next romantic comedy with a black cast and see how may whites are there alone, or with other whites. I don’t consider myself racist (I have many black friends, and have even been in their homes 
) but can’t think of one such film I’ve ever gone to, and my white friends are the same.
[QUOTE=Dob]
Could you go and find a few people here and there so racisit that they wouldn’t see a “black” movie? Sure. But your first statement said “many whites”, and I just couldn’t let that one go.
[/QUOTE]
Well, **dropzone ** has admitted to thinking the same way, and I’ve never seen him making racist comments on the board. One of my good friends (a white person) told another friend he didn’t want to see Drumline because he didn’t like black movies. If he hates black people, he has a funny way of showing it because he hangs out with me all the time, and we shared a place for years. That’s not a big sample size, but it does happen.
On the other side of the coin, I don’t go see movies like Elizabeth, or movies that are set in medieval/Renaissance Europe. I don’t mind movies with all-white casts, but when the film goes back into the “olden” days of Europe, with no chance of a token black person being thrown in, I worry I won’t be able to identify with the people or their problems.
Just like I don’t go see teen movies or macho guy movies. I’m not a teen and I’m not a man, so I feel like the movie isn’t going to speak to me.
That we have to provide testimony backing up this basic premise is beyond weird to me.
The movie comes on TV so often now, I wonder how it’s possible NOT to have watched it.
[QUOTE=Dob]
I did say I didn’t believe you…
[/quote]
No, you said this:
You called it an ignorant statement without showing your math, buddy.
I gotta say that I am rather curious why you don’t believe me. Do you honestly believe that whites are equally likely to see a “black movie” as they are a “white one” of comparable quality? Really? That doesn’t even sound right to me. And I’m not even talking about racism here. Even if you take that out of the picture, you still have cultural differences that affect tastes and preferences. Whites* have different favorite movie stars than black people do. (White girls ooh and ahh over Brad Pitt. Black girls ooh and ahh over Morris Chesnut.) Movie preferences are also different, which matters when it comes to soundtracks and their drawing power. I can’t see how those two things alone would not cause whites, as a group, to gravitate to “white movies” over “black movies”.
That’s kind of a rose-colored view, isn’t it? But it actually doesn’t negate what I said, so that makes this the second time I’m bumping my head against a non sequiter in this thread. That many whites are turned off by black movies doesn’t mean that it’s impossible for a black movie to do well; it just means that it’s harder.
I honestly don’t know what I could say to persuade you. I mean, I could tell you to check out this list of the 100 highest-grossing American films and count the number of movies with mostly black casts. But I have a feeling that won’t convince you. I guess I could do a poll and ask white Dopers to state how many of the following movies they’ve seen and compare them to the number that black Dopers profess: Harlem Nights, The Color Purple, Do the Right Thing, Friday, Love Jones, Soul Food, Boyz in the Hood, Set It Off, and my personal favorite The Last Dragon. But I don’t know if this will tell us much either, given that polls tend to self-select.
Do you balk at the idea that many blacks are turned off by “white movies”? Be honest. In my experience, many do.
*In my experience.
I meant to say music preferences are also different. :smack:
I just dont buy the “many” whites idea. I think a small few may be turned off, but yes I do think if you have two movies of equal quality, an all black cast would do fine.
And again, you made the first statement that “many whites” wont see a black movie, just cause its a black movie. It’s not up to me to prove you right or wrong. You made the statement, either you back it up with something, or retract it. That’s how a debate works. If you take a stand, you need to be able to back it up… a survey, a news article, some study paper, anything besides anecdotal evidence.
But this is not GD, so I’m probably just being picky. your statement just stuck in my craw and I wanted to know what exactly made you think that.
Ha! I can’t believe I actually ran across someone else who loves this movie!
“Directa your feetsa to Daddy Green’s pizza!”
Classic…
[QUOTE=monstro]
Martin is one of the funniest sitcoms ever, superior IMHO to Seinfield and Friends in both writing and casting.
[/QUOTE]
Martin was an awful, capital A Awful show, superior to Seinfeld only because Seinfeld was even more terrible.
The rest of your post makes perfect sense, though. It’s hypocritical to blame blacks for watching bad movies, when whites are taking bad movies to the next level of badness with Chuck and Larry, and letting TV shows like Arrested Development and Firefly get canceled because we’re too busy watching bullshit like America’s Got Talent (I know these shows didn’t compete, but still…)
[QUOTE=Equipoise]
I was going to put this in the Pit, but if I, with effort, tone down my language it might stay in Cafe Society.
I am sick and tired of groups who bitch and moan about how Hollywood (which to them usually encompasses ALL movies, even Indies and foreign films) NEVER makes movies for them, but when a movie that would be perfect for them comes out, they don’t go to see it. They don’t support it, and so why should people who finance movies go to the bother and expense of financing other movies suitable for that group? Among many examples, I saw it happen recently with Duma, an absolutely PERFECT family movie, that died a horrible death after it opened in Chicago and nobody went to see it (well, except my husband and me, and Roger Ebert). If it had done well here, it would have opened in other cities too.
I see it happening again with the excellent film Talk To Me . When I saw it on opening day, there were only a few people in the audience, and all of the faces were white. It’s a fantastic movie, and blacks should be embracing it. It tells about a slice of their history, is uplifting, funny, moving, incredibly well-acted (Don Cheadle, Chiwetel Ejiofor, Taraji P. Henson, Cedric the Entertainer among others), is directed by a highly respected black woman (Kasi Lemmons, who directed Eve’s Bayou) and, amazingly, is NOT about a white person who has a powerful effect on black people (see Freedom Writers and any number of other empowerment movies). If that weren’t enough, it’s got some damned fine music in it.
It’s dying at the box office.
After playing for 3 weeks, it’s made a lousy $2,097,000 playing in 187 theaters. People in smaller cities will never get a chance to see it in the theater because urban blacks in the cities where it’s playing are not supporting it the way it should be supported. Why? Why will Who’s Your Caddy? make more money in one day than Talk To Me has made in 3 weeks? Talk To Me is not an esoteric indie film. It’s a highly entertaining and interesting mainstream film, a film that whites and blacks and anyone who likes films should enjoy.
Sure, it’ll do ok on DVD, but it still should be doing better in the theater. It’s a damned shame.
Next up: El Cantante, which, by all accounts so far is a good movie, will probably die because Puerto Ricans won’t show up in droves to support it. I hope they prove me wrong.
The Greek community got it right, at least, when they supported My Big Fat Greek Wedding.
[/QUOTE]
It doesn’t really matter if you are black, but I am. So I need to ask:
Who the hell are you to tell me what movie I need to see or support? Seriously. I find your assumption that you know this very insulting.
I agree, but she’s all ready admitted taking this route was poorly thought out.
[QUOTE=Dob]
But this is not GD, so I’m probably just being picky. your statement just stuck in my craw and I wanted to know what exactly made you think that.
[/quote]
I think it sticks in your craw for unfounded reasons, which is why you were quick to call it ignorant without having any factual basis for saying so. At any rate, calling me to the carpet for saying the number of whites who don’t like black movies is “many” instead of a “few” is all kinds of silly. That’s a judgement call, dude.
Glad you are member of The Last Dragon fan club, by the way. Our tribe is few but proud.
[QUOTE=Mosier]
It’s hypocritical to blame blacks for watching bad movies, when whites are taking bad movies to the next level of badness with Chuck and Larry, and letting TV shows like Arrested Development and Firefly get canceled because we’re too busy watching bullshit like America’s Got Talent (I know these shows didn’t compete, but still…)
[/QUOTE]
Regardless of creed or color, every movie-goer has the right to have bad taste once in a while. I can get behind that. 
[QUOTE=Jolly Roger]
It doesn’t really matter if you are black, but I am. So I need to ask:
Who the hell are you to tell me what movie I need to see or support? Seriously. I find your assumption that you know this very insulting.
[/QUOTE]
You might want to read the whole thread. I am nobody and have no business whatsoever telling you or anyone else what movies to see or support. If I could do it over I would have made this thread a “hey, people (all people) ought to see this movie, it’s really good” thread.
[QUOTE=Dob]
I did say I didn’t believe you, and I asked for some kind of facts to back up your statement. What else did you want me to do?
So now your talking about Television? I thought this whole debate was about movies.
And yes, it is hard to believe, especially with movies, I think that any good movie, marketed to a broad audience, will do well no matter what race makes up the majority of the films cast. People like the movies, it’s an escape. If it is done well, the appeal is generally universal.
Could you go and find a few people here and there so racisit that they wouldn’t see a “black” movie? Sure. But your first statement said “many whites”, and I just couldn’t let that one go.
[/QUOTE]
I have recently started watching The Wire. It is an amazing show. But I will be perfectly honest: if I had been flipping channels and passed by this show with all its black actors, I wouldn’t have stopped to see what it was. I would’ve assumed it was a “black” show or movie and therefore not targeted at me, even though I’m right in the bullseye of its target audience. It’s not racist to point out that white people and black people in America have very different cultures, and what’s interesting and relevant to one is not the same as what’s interesting and relevant to the other.
You realize that the average white person can’t identify with the problems of Queen Elizabeth either, right? 
[QUOTE=carterba]
It’s not racist to point out that white people and black people in America have very different cultures, and what’s interesting and relevant to one is not the same as what’s interesting and relevant to the other.
[/QUOTE]
No, it’s just completely wrong.
[QUOTE=pizzabrat]
No, it’s just completely wrong.
[/QUOTE]
It depends on what you mean by “culture.”
If you mean black and white ethnic culture, yes, we’re very different.
If you mean black and white rural folk culture, there are minor differences but basically the same attitudes about things, especially in communities where there’s lots of social interaction between the two groups on a more or less equal basis.
If you mean pop culture, blacks and whites are vastly different. What’s popular with blacks may not be popular with whites, and what starts to become popular with blacks often becomes less so once white America gloms on to it. You see this in music and fashion and slang all the time.
If you mean youth culture among blacks and whites, there are many shared interests expressed in different ways, some rather starkly, some not so much. Youth culture is a mixed bag.
If you mean high culture-- especially among blacks who are highly assimilationist – I agree I don’t think there’s THAT much difference.
[QUOTE=lissener]
Good. Because Don Cheadle is one of less than a handful of actors whose name alone will send me out to see a movie: he’s among the best 3 or 4 actors of this generation.
[/QUOTE]
His turn in Hotel Rwanda aside – I do not get this attitude. I do not understand this. I do like him, Lissener-I-Am. I would not watch him with a goat. I would not watch him in a boat.
[QUOTE=carterba]
I have recently started watching The Wire. It is an amazing show./QUOTE]
I’ve seen this show praised here several times now. I need to check it out. What channel is it on, and when does it come on?
[QUOTE=Askia]
If you mean black and white ethnic culture, yes, we’re very different.
[/quote]
It’s not so much the difference between real black and white people, but the difference in how aggressively (and how realistically) black and white cultures are marketed by Hollywood.
I admit that if I bothered to watch TV at all, I’d be likely to pass over an all-black television program if I were flipping channels. This is mostly due to my cynicism: I’d fully expect the show was a mixture of bad TV cliches, in-jokes, stereotypes, and culture references that I probably wouldn’t get, primarily because I assume it’s probably white people who write and produce these shows. I’d suspect that the “black culture” part of the show is over-emphasized for marketing purposes, but I wouldn’t know for sure how badly they were misleading me. It’s that willing suspension of disbelief thing.
For the same reason, I’d probably pass over a chick flick if it were written and directed by David Mamet, or a movie about what it’s like to be English that was written and performed by Americans.
On the other hand, I’d totally watch a Raymond Chow movie about Cantonese people, or a Roberto Rodriguez movie about Hispanic people. They know.
But maybe that’s just me.
Fish. Two thoughts.
Any movie produced within, through and approved by ordinary Hollywood studio releases I would unhesitatntly categorize as Pop culture and Youth culture moreso than Ethnic culture, excepting certain certain foreign imports and distribution deals.
By ethnic culture, I meant those traditions, events, celebrations, personalities and expressions that are important to people of a particular ethnic group.
Well, yeah.
I should add, to be fair, that I’d also unhesitatingly pass over a blockbuster must-see movie about those kooky white youths of America, those crazy kids with their iPods and their colleges and their kegs of “beer” and their crazy hip-hugging “blue jeans” and their big breasts with the dancing and the drinking and the hey lady! flavin.
Probably also written by a committee of elderly white men with no clue to the society they’re trying to portray, marketed ruthlessly to a target demographic that the writers don’t care if they portray properly.