[QUOTE=lissener]
Why the defensive tone, ywtf?
[/QUOTE]
Sorry not getting the point of your post. The success of Sydney Poiter and others doesn’t prove anything that I’ve said is wrong.
You do know that the word “many” is not synonymous to “all” or even “most”, right?
Not to mention, Sydney Potier did not win his award starring in a “black” movie.
Neither did Halle Berry, Whoopie Goldberg, Denzel Washington, or Queen Latifah.
[QUOTE=zamboniracer]
I say this facetiously, but if it had been marketed as Tyler Perry’s Talk to Me, and had a scenery-chewing, big-momma, man-in-drag, type character Tyler Perry, Eddie Murphy, Martin Lawrence and others are famous for, it would have a huge black audience. It would infringe trademarks, copyrights, etc. but there are drawbacks to everything.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but this isn’t some sort of phenomenon limited to a black audience. There have been some really gorgeous, fantastic movies released this summer that deserve a wide audience. Joshua is one of the best psychological horror movies I have ever seen, but I bet Skinwalkers will draw a bigger audience. How many people have seen Once? Not as many as the number of people who’d part with their hard earned money for the privilege of seeing crap like I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry.
The real question isn’t why urban blacks won’t support Talk to Me. It’s “Why won’t a wide audience support good movies in general?”
[QUOTE=lissener]
Why the defensive tone, ywtf? All you have to do is offer the proof that there have never been any black boxoffice stars. Well, except for Sidney Poitier. And, OK, Will Smith. And Denzel Washington. And, um, Eddie Murphy. And Whoopi Goldberg, the Wayans, Ice Cube, Queen Latifah . . .
But other than those . . .
[/QUOTE]
I don’t think that ywtf’s post was about black stars; it was about films with predominantly black casts. The biggest box office hits by the people you named were films whose casts were not predominantly black.
Since I’d been looking forward to this movie ever since I first saw the trailer, and since I wanted to see it not because I had ever heard of Petey Green, but because I think Don Cheadle and Chiwetel Ejiofor are two of our finest actors, and since I saw it on opening day, I’m going to ignore all the intimations that I’m somehow a racist because I want people to support movies.
I probably should have counted to 10 or 100 before I posted, and I do wish I had started a thread based on the movie itself rather than who’s not going to see it, but then, hey, this thread got more replies that tack might have. I’m not a troll though, I didn’t do it on purpose. I had gone to check the box office numbers for a few movies, wondering how they were doing. I do this not because I care so much about what’s #1 or in the Top 10, but I want the movies I like to do well. I saw the numbers for Talk To Me and just got mad.
[QUOTE=pepperlandgirl]
There have been some really gorgeous, fantastic movies released this summer that deserve a wide audience. Joshua is one of the best psychological horror movies I have ever seen, but I bet Skinwalkers will draw a bigger audience. How many people have seen Once? Not as many as the number of people who’d part with their hard earned money for the privilege of seeing crap like I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry.
The real question isn’t why urban blacks won’t support Talk to Me. It’s “Why won’t a wide audience support good movies in general?”
[/QUOTE]
Exactly. I’ve seen, but never expected Once or Joshua or La Vie En Rose or Waitress or Rescue Dawn, among others, to be big hits. I never expected Talk To Me to be a huge hit either, but it really should be doing better. It’s much more “mainstream” for lack of a better word, than any of those. (I haven’t seen or heard of Skinwalkers, btw)
Why do I target urban blacks? First, because the movie is only playing in big cities, and if they don’t support the movie, ALONG WITH WHITE PEOPLE (jeez, I can’t believe I had to add that), it’s never going to get released in smaller cities. I’m also going to ignore the “most urban blacks are poor” argument.
Also, because…
[QUOTE=jacquilynne]
Please tell me that last line is a whoosh.
[/QUOTE]
That was in reference to my quip about My Big Fat Greek Wedding, though I should have specified Greek-Americans. They’re the ones who yes, did go out and support that movie and talked it up to their relatives and friends and co-workers. The movie, which I thought was very sweet, grew not from manufactured hype, but from its original audience supporting it to an extent that the circle grew ever wider and it amazingly became a smash hit. Maybe it is a marketing thing, since the people behind MBFGW did take it and show it in Greek-American communities first. The people behind Talk To Me could have learned a few things from them, not that I would ever expect TTM to do as well financially. It’s a darker, more complex movie and not so much a crowd-pleaser as MBFGW.
AuntiePam, I’m glad you got a chance to see Duma.
[QUOTE=Beadalin]
Moreover, almost every biopic made in the last couple of decades follows the same inevitable formula, so much so that there’s zero suspense in it for me. Think VH1’s Behind the Music: There’s the early history, the climb to success and fame, the substance abuse (or infidelity, or illness, or whatever), the fall from grace, and then it all ends on something uplifting to show that this person has overcome problems and is going to be A-OK. Bo-ring.
[/QUOTE]
Strangely enough, I kinda thought it would be that way too, but I was surprised. It’s not like that at all. In fact, in the bio-pic genre, it takes some very surprising turns that were quite interesting. It’s about someone who was on a terrible downward spiral but found his niche (a paraphrase: “Being a DJ is the only thing I’m good at that’s not against the law”) and made himself and the listeners he touched better people for it. He reached out to a city in pain (when MLK was shot) and helped people heal and direct their anger to productive and positive goals. Yeah, he did drink, but he died of cancer, not from drink or drugs. He wasn’t ‘on the way up but self-destructed,’ he didn’t want to go up at all. His manager wanted him to become a famous stand-up comedian, another Richard Pryor, but that’s not what Petey Green wanted. He just wanted to do his own little thing in his own way, in his own city, and good for him. Not everyone has to have huge ambitions and vast dreams. Petey Green did what he was good at, at a very important time in history, and if no one outside of a certain age group from Washington, D.C has ever heard of him, that’s a shame, but it’s what he wanted. They really need to see Talk To Me. He’s an interesting person, it’s an interesting story, set in a fascinating time period (and it really feels like that time too), with great music. As I said, it’s funny and entertaining and moving.
It’s yes, a small movie and a simple story about a unknown man but in my mind, not all biopics have to be about famous or “important” people. This movie is the ultimate proof to me. I’m so glad I saw it, and I want other people to see it too. It’s a slice of history, and black history, the kind that we rarely get to see.
[QUOTE=Equipoise]
Since I’d been looking forward to this movie ever since I first saw the trailer, and since I wanted to see it not because I had ever heard of Petey Green, but because I think Don Cheadle and Chiwetel Ejiofor are two of our finest actors, and since I saw it on opening day, I’m going to ignore all the intimations that I’m somehow a racist because I want people to support movies.
[/QUOTE]
I didn’t call you a racist, and I don’t think you are a racist, but I still have to point out that nothing in that paragraph “proves” you’re not a racist. Racism can take many more forms than, “Grr! I hate those black people!”
[QUOTE=Miller]
I didn’t call you a racist, and I don’t think you are a racist, but I still have to point out that nothing in that paragraph “proves” you’re not a racist. Racism can take many more forms than, “Grr! I hate those black people!”
[/QUOTE]
Oh whatever. Might as well count me as anti-family because of my mention of Duma. Grr, I hate those families! :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Equipoise]
Oh whatever. Might as well count me as anti-family because of my mention of Duma. Grr, I hate those families! :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
Wow, you didn’t even remotely comprehend any single thing I said in that post, did you?
[QUOTE=Equipoise]
That was in reference to my quip about My Big Fat Greek Wedding, though I should have specified Greek-Americans. They’re the ones who yes, did go out and support that movie and talked it up to their relatives and friends and co-workers. The movie, which I thought was very sweet, grew not from manufactured hype, but from its original audience supporting it to an extent that the circle grew ever wider and it amazingly became a smash hit. Maybe it is a marketing thing, since the people behind MBFGW did take it and show it in Greek-American communities first. The people behind Talk To Me could have learned a few things from them, not that I would ever expect TTM to do as well financially. It’s a darker, more complex movie and not so much a crowd-pleaser as MBFGW.
[/QUOTE]
Maybe I’m cynical, but black people could generate all the hype they want about a movie, and it wouldn’t keep people from thinking, “not for me”. Perhaps it’s because there’s no such thing as a “Greek American” movie, but have more than a handful of black characters and its suddenly “black” and thus gets cast into the African American aisle at your local Blockbuster.
Do you ever listen to the Tom Joyner Morning Show? He hypes movies and lesser known actors all the time to his predominately black listenership. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s already plugged Talk To Me.
[QUOTE=Miller]
Wow, you didn’t even remotely comprehend any single thing I said in that post, did you?
[/QUOTE]
To be fair, I think it’s pretty clear she read your post a little quickly and misunderstood your point, which was rather subtly made; I had to read it twice for comprehension.
Yeah, I shouldn’t have snapped like that. Sorry, Equipose, I’m a little short tempered after a particularly bad week.
That’s ok Miller, I’m sorry too. Lissener was right, I read it wrong. I was in too much of a hurry to go swimming and didn’t stop to think it through. I do that much too often, I know. I have a good heart, deep down, honest, but my brain doesn’t work so well sometimes. This thread should have been about how good Talk To Me is, and nothing more than that. My, very, bad.
Sorry, guess you dont get around to GD much. But you made the statement, I dont have back up anything up. I’m just asking what caused you to make such an ignorant statement. And based on the fact you haven’t provided any reason, I have my answer.
[QUOTE=monstro]
Even if every black person went to a movie, that still wouldn’t make it a blockbuster.
I don’t know why the OP is blaming black people for this, as if black people are the ones who dictate whether a movie becomes successful or not. How can a group that comprises 13% of the population be blamed for a movie not being popular? Where is the ire for the white people who are going to see that awful Adam Sandler movie? What, only white people can watch movies that they wanna see without guilt?
Black people do support “good” movies. I don’t know a black person who hasn’t watched Eve’s Bayou or The Color Purple a million times over. It’s white people who take one look at an all-black cast and decide that the movie is inferior. They’ll look at a movie like Hustle and Flow and disparage it as yet another “gangsta” film, but have no problem watching Goodfellas, Casino, orThe Godfather. Does the OP really blame black people for Eve’s Bayou not being popular? Ha! That’s rich, really. We should do a poll; I’m betting a higher percentage of black Dopers have watched that movie (and will watch the newest Don Cheadle movie) than white Dopers.
Better yet, ask how many white people watched Tyler Perry’s series of films? Those movies are hugely popular among black people and are full of uplifting, if not preachy, messages. No, they aren’t going to win any Sundance awards, but why should this be the only metric of quality?
You know, I also roll my eyes at black people who beat the “there’s no good images out there for us” drum. For every stupid TV show like The Parkers (which still manages to make me laugh, despite my ambivalence towards Monique), there are good shows like Girlfriends or Living Single (sadly existing only on reruns). Martin is one of the funniest sitcoms ever, superior IMHO to Seinfield and Friends in both writing and casting. Yes, there is buffoonery, but buffoonery is comic gold. Where would Kosmo Cramer be without buffoonery? SNL would be non-existent without buffoonery. Sometimes I think some black people think we have to be portrayed just like white people for us to think the image is respectful. Sorry, I’m not buying that. I only care about laughing. I’m not going to laugh at stupid, stereotypical shit, but that doesn’t mean I only want to watch stuff that’s been arbitrarily labeled as high-brow and meaningful. Guess I’m not a snob like that (although I will not be watching Who’s Your Caddy?)
When Talk To Me comes to my neighborhood–if it ever does–I will definitely watch it. And if not, it will be on my Netflix que. Not because I care about supporting black cinema (I don’t don’t care about it, but it’s not at the top of my priority list). It’s because I love Don Cheadle.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with this. I think it looks like a good movie (hellooo! Don Cheadle!) and I think it will appeal to all races. However, the argument falls apart when you assume that the American public goes to the movies to see “good” movies. They like when stuff gets blowed up good. They like numerous quality kills. They like ridiculous slapstick goofiness. They like fast cars and fast women. They like these things on the big screen. In my opinion, this movie is going to appeal to a very small percentage of the theater-going population because (to my knowledge) it contains none of those qualities. Most American moviegoers don’t like quiet films. It’ll do good in home video; in fact, I predict it will do GREAT in home video.
[QUOTE=lissener]
Good. Because Don Cheadle is one of less than a handful of actors whose name alone will send me out to see a movie: he’s among the best 3 or 4 actors of this generation.
[/QUOTE]
I adore him, but he won’t get me OUT to the movies. I normally will only go if the experience is enhanced by viewing it on the big screen. I will enjoy this move more from the comfort of my own home. In my sweats with at-will potty breaks and smoking the whole time.
Thanks for addressing my biopic assumptions, Equipoise. You’ve made it sound a lot more interesting than I was thinking it would be.
[QUOTE=Equipoise]
That was in reference to my quip about My Big Fat Greek Wedding, though I should have specified Greek-Americans. They’re the ones who yes, did go out and support that movie and talked it up to their relatives and friends and co-workers. The movie, which I thought was very sweet, grew not from manufactured hype, but from its original audience supporting it to an extent that the circle grew ever wider and it amazingly became a smash hit. Maybe it is a marketing thing, since the people behind MBFGW did take it and show it in Greek-American communities first. The people behind Talk To Me could have learned a few things from them, not that I would ever expect TTM to do as well financially. It’s a darker, more complex movie and not so much a crowd-pleaser as MBFGW.
[/QUOTE]
Greek Wedding was one ridiculously gratuitous stereotype after another. It was, in everything but budget, a typical Hollywood rom-com. That it turned out to be a huge hit doesn’t make it a role model for anything.
[QUOTE=jacquilynne]
Greek Wedding was one ridiculously gratuitous stereotype after another. It was, in everything but budget, a typical Hollywood rom-com. That it turned out to be a huge hit doesn’t make it a role model for anything.
[/QUOTE]
Big Fat Greek Wedding had one hell of a marketing team behind it. They came up with a great slow roll out plan and stuck to it. In each city, in advance of the opeining they went there and practically built the word of mouth by hand. When the movie developed some buzz, they didn’t throw out the plan and go into wide release mode. They didn’t give 5 prints to the biggest multiplex in the market. They milked that cash cow for every drop. Now obviously the film had something that connected with audiences, but the distribution company did a great job with that film.
[QUOTE=Dob]
Sorry, guess you dont get around to GD much. But you made the statement, I dont have back up anything up. I’m just asking what caused you to make such an ignorant statement.
[/quote]
You’re saying my statement is ignorant. That, in case you don’t know, is an assertion that begs for some kind of substantiation. If you don’t believe me, fine. Say so. But you’re going one step beyond that by suggesting falsity.
Go back and read how I came to my conclusion. It comes from my contact with white people. Now you may be one of many white people who don’t have that bias, but I assure you there are many others who have it. Just as many black people shy away from “white movies” for the same reasons.
I mean, is it really that hard to believe? It’s a known fact that productions with largely black productions tend to have a harder time in the ratings department. That’s why the success of the Cosby show was a big deal.
I did say I didn’t believe you, and I asked for some kind of facts to back up your statement. What else did you want me to do?
So now your talking about Television? I thought this whole debate was about movies.
And yes, it is hard to believe, especially with movies, I think that any good movie, marketed to a broad audience, will do well no matter what race makes up the majority of the films cast. People like the movies, it’s an escape. If it is done well, the appeal is generally universal.
Could you go and find a few people here and there so racisit that they wouldn’t see a “black” movie? Sure. But your first statement said “many whites”, and I just couldn’t let that one go.