I can join the Latin Kings*. I can join the Aryan Nation. I can join other “extremist” groups like the Branch Davidians. And in all these cases, I’m “free” to join, but will be subject to arrest once I actually do something illegal.
I’m having a little trouble believing that this is a serious question. If it is, you obviously haven’t bothered to do any critical thinking whatsoever.
But to point out some of the blindingly obvious–
ISIS is very, very similar to a group that has successfully conducted attacks on American soil and has tried to carry out several other attacks.
Most people look upon treason and attempted treason rather unfavorably.
Because that’s what the laws say. Laws are passed by men in an imperfect system, and so there isn’t perfect internal consistency between everything.
If you asked a lawmaker to justify it, I suppose you’d hear that terrorism is more of a threat than organized crime, and so the government needs to discourage it more.
All the other groups the OP mentions have successfully conducted attacks on American soil. In fact, they’ve conducted all their attacks on US soil, and you don’t need to resort to “similar” groups to link them. I would venture to suggest you haven’t thought critically about the question either.
Hint: it’s not what they do. It’s why they do it. Perhaps something others should keep in mind when railing about hate crime legislation.
I would imagine you can start a group that PRAISES ISIS, but probably you can’t join ISIS itself, since it’s a terrorist organization. Is it also illegal to join the IRA?
Continuity Irish Republican Army and Real Irish Republican Army are on the State Department’s list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations. That would be a yes if joining met the requirement of providing material support to them.
I suppose the government could charge all members of gangs or organized crime under RICO. But then gangs and organized crime arent waging wars. committing mass murder and organized systematic rape. Also, ISIS is a political entity.
The technical answer is that none of the identified groups is a terrorist organization. We have specifically criminalized the providing of material support to terrorist organizations, and have defined the term to include personnel (including yourself, if you join).To be a terrorist organization under this law, among other things, you have to be a foreign organization. So the Crips are never going to be subject to this law without amendments.
Notably, you can’t be prosecuted for joining ISIS in the abstract. You have to work or attempt to work under their direction or control. If I just say, “Hey, I’m ISIS now!” and then push some old lady down on the subway, they cannot prosecute me for joining ISIS. Indeed, if I say “Hey, I’m ISIS now!” and shoot up a Shiite mosque, same result, if there was no direction or control.
It’s technically illegal to join a communist organization. Not really enforced and if the government tried the courts would probably declare it unconstitutional, but there ya go.
OK… so what is the moral argument to being “similar to a group that has successfully conducted attacks on American soil” means that attempts to join the group is grounds for arrest? The Nazis conducted attacks on Americans… but it’s not illegal to join the Nazi party. The Crips have conducted attacks on Americans… yet it’s not illegal to join the Crips.
So ISIS is “similar” to Al Qaeda - big deal. If I wanted to join ISIS because I want to teach in their schools, I get arrested in the US for doing so. On the other hand, I can apply for Chinese citizenship, expressing my desire to join “a group that has successfully conducted attacks on American soil”… yet I won’t get arrested. What’s the (again, moral) difference?
Thank you. At least the legal answer makes logical sense.
From a moral, “land of the free” viewpoint however… not really. If some dumbass wants to join ISIS, let him… and let him reap the consequences. Revoke his citizenship, drop bombs on his ass, etc… but don’t arrest him because he’s an idiot.
The reason you can’t join ISIS is so that the US can maintain its security theatre and to ensure that citizens will be frightened enough to be easier to control
If the current international devil was truly the Nazis, then the US would hype up the threat they posed, and by this means they could maintain covert observations on its citizens under the guise of patriotism.
Do you recall the terrible threat that Saddam Hussain posed? Oh and that sensational republican guard, every reason on earth to invade and steal their oil. As for a genuine threat, of course his nation was not any sort of threat at all - there never were any WMD there - but how do you stop us objectively pursuing those liars and leaders who led us there? Lets have another threat of course, one to replace the last one, and lets have another to stop us asking too many questions in the future.
US power brokers and politicians like to demonstrate their suitability for office by having regular conflicts, threats and wars.
A frightened population can be directed to inappropriate patriotism, after all, why do YOU hate America?
This stops US citizens actually asking why it is that healthcare is a crock for much of the population, or why blacks seem to be disproportionally in the poorest sectors of US society, or why company bosses receive overwhelming bonus payments in the face of mediocre performance.
Do you actually read the news? ISIS is a political movement that is waging war. They mass murder non-muslim males and force the females into slavery. They are encouraging random acts of violence inside of the USA. What more do you need to understand?
That is more or less true (if incomplete in suggesting they are targeting non-Muslims). But that doesn’t show that the attention paid to ISIS is rational or commensurate with the level of threat they pose. We’d save far more lives by a campaign to prevent old people from slipping and falling in the bathroom. But that doesn’t get the Fox News crowd whipped up in a tizzy (even though they would benefit most!).
The truth is that we humans behave somewhat irrationally when it comes to dealing with threats from “outsiders.” We prioritize them exponentially higher than the level of risk they actually pose when compared to other threats, and even when compared to other similar or identical groups who aren’t outsiders (e.g., American neo-nazis). I don’t really agree that we do so by conscious political conspiracy as casdave suggests, but he’s probably closer to the truth than you are.
Are you looking to join ISIS for employment reasons? I know the economy is destroyed and broken so I take it that is why you want to join ISIS to have a job?
Since ISIS is destabilizing an economic region that is vital for the international economy and have been waging a successful (so far) campaign to establish a Caliphate in regions they control I would venture to say that they pose a far greater threat than individuals falling in their bathtubs. A region-wide war based on religion (Shia v Sunni) and ethnicity (Persian v Arab v Israeli) is a nightmare scenario that would likely draw us into the conflict at the cost of many lives and much treasure.
May we also please put an end to this left-wing paranoia? (Fox News, government conspiracies to minter us all, etc). They are as silly as right-wing paranoia.
