I capitalize Black because a Black coworker asked me to, about 20 years ago. She said that everyone else’s ethnicity was capitalized, and it was only fair that hers was capitalized, too.
No Black person has ever complained about my capitalization. And now the Chicago manual of style recommends it. So i feel good about that choice.
I go back and forth between white and White. I’m curious for arguments either way.
Serious question for @MrDibble : do you think that African-Americans share an ethnicity with Africans who identify as Black? I would have thought not.
I’m not aware of any publications that capitalize Black but not white. Obviously I don’t read every periodical on the planet, but from what I’ve seen, the decision to capitalize Black is accompanied by capitalizing White as well.
No doubt many fraught discussions have been held in newsrooms regarding the best style guide rule for the current era, and of course the “right” answer has changed over time and will continue to change. But personally I sympathize with publications who capitalize White when they capitalize Black. Not doing so would invite a shitstorm of invective, moreso than any other choice, probably.
The decision to capitalize or not capitalize is of course reductive, as all style rules are. There’s no way around that, so we make a decision, stick with it for consistency’s sake, and get on with the publication production process.
I haven’t checked, but my sister claims the Chicago manual of style recommends Black and white.
Is it actually a new trend, or just one you didn’t notice before? And do you think that the motivation differs depending on who’s doing it?
And do you think that maybe the thing to do when raising a topic that might get you roasted is to start with an open mind instead of spouting your dumbass personal opinion on the topic along with the question?
How about “Fuck off”, instead?
I didn’t need your condescending “context”. America, and especially its racists, is not some great fucking mystery to the rest of the world. It’s not like you’re explaining the mysteries of Bhutanese cuisine to an Amazonian, for fuck’s sake.
But I especially didn’t need it since you were wrong, there is a complete category of people who use White as a cultural descriptor who are not racists. They’ve made whole studies of it, and everything.
Me, too. To me, not capitalizing seems to reinforce the unjust but long pervasive idea of “white” as “default” – the privilege of being such a “given” that it need not be called out like other identities. But by capitalizing it, you’re implying it is “just” another ethnicity/culture/identity – which is good in some ways, but it obscures how it has enjoyed (and largely continues to enjoy) the unearned privilege of “defaultness.”
Thanks! I will send that to my sister.
No. But “Black” as I use it is not an ethnicity. It’s a bit bigger than that. Blacks in Africa aren’t one ethnicity either. Far from it.
I feel that either both should be capitalized, or neither.
People of all ethnicities are free to make requests about how they are referred to in both speech and writing. I have dark skinned colleagues who hate the concept of capital B “Black” and have been very vocal about it (they don’t like being lumped together as some homegenous mass). Others prefer it, still others couldn’t care less. But then I do work for a worldwide company with a huge variety of ethnicities and any reductionist description is going to run into problems. Very few people like to be pigeonholed.
So it is far from a universal practice and something that needs to be negotiated in good faith on a case-by-case basis.
Certainly if you called me “White” with a capital W I’d prefer you didn’t but I’d assume If I asked you not to you’d comply, why would anyone not?
Well, it’s rare for anyone to refer to an individual, especially in print (where this distinction can be detected), as anything in particular. It’s more likely that someone might ask you to capitalize if you’re having a text or email conversation (or message board one), and you’re using the word more generally (or perhaps to refer to a celebrity or other person, not the individual being addressed). I don’t see why you wouldn’t oblige, but if you didn’t (while not calling attention to it), I wouldn’t think it’s a big deal.
But I doubt anyone would ask you to do that, in texts or emails or message boards. It would probably only come up (I think) when you’re writing something that will be published (including, say, an official web page of some entity); then, I would expect you to gracefully conform to the standards of the entity or publication (perhaps while, behind the scenes, making an argument to change the policy, directed toward those who decide this).
Well, I was a little drunk and wondering. Not intentionally trolling but I did expect to be called out on the question, as you did. So it had to be the pit.
I don’t really understand how “these people don’t identify as Black” is relevant to whether to capitalize the word when describing people who DO identify as Black. There are lots of dark-skinned people who are not appropriately described as Black, even if some of them might have very dark skin, colloquially described as “black” skin.
FWIW, here in America, there are a great many people who identity as Black. There are also a lot of dark-skinned people from southern India who don’t. Probably other dark-skinned people who aren’t Black, but that’s who comes to mind.
I am white by accident of birth, because two white people met and had a baby. I had no choice in the matter. But - although I completely recognise white privilege, and living in fairly racist societies, I have certainly benefitted from it - I don’t think it is worthy of a proper noun.
( My son, who is 5, and attends a very multi-racial school invented the word “skirt” to describe our family’s skin colour. I think I prefer that! )
But some would argue that this privilege is what allows people to get away with not capitalizing it – to avoid drawing attention (or even acknowledging) that there are cultural traits associated with “whiteness” (though this varies somewhat from among countries) – that it’s not just some baseline default, and that only all the other identities and cultures need to be marked (in the linguistic sense of “treated as special or not the norm”).
I don’t see the correlation. The study of whiteness is rather separate from the descriptor “white.” I’m sure you’re aware of what whiteness is, so I’ll just point out that one is primarily academic, while the other is used in general conversation. (And, even then, many scholars still don’t capitalize either word.)
The guy is right about why it is generally recommended not to capitalize the word “white,” even if you capitalize “Black.” If you don’t believe me, here’s AP guide on it:
We agree that white people’s skin color plays into systemic inequalities and injustices, and we want our journalism to robustly explore those problems. But capitalizing the term white, as is done by white supremacists, risks subtly conveying legitimacy to such beliefs.
Just because there are some people (primarily in academia) who aren’t racist who use “White” doesn’t change the above. The capitalization is associated with white supremacy, and thus people are more reluctant to use it. Racists far outnumber people who study race in the US, after all.
Even if you know much more about the US than we know about South Africa, surely it’s reasonable that those living here might know something about the culture that you missed.
Maybe a difference in culture between RSA and ZW, then. Both would be put in the somewhat meaningless category of “coloured” in Zimbabwe.
I understand that that label is indicative of a certain culture and origin in RSA, so I will bow out to you as I am just an immigrant, and I carry what I learnt growing up in a different society.
I’ve been around long enough to remember when “Negro” and “colored” were the most-used terms for those who did not have white skin. It seems to me that this country has never really made an honest effort to just refer to each other as “Americans”, without the qualifiers of race, and I doubt we will ever reach the point where we don’t differentiate. At least not in my lifetime. Perhaps in another 200 years when we are all a nice shade of mocha, this sort of argument can be put behind us.