Politically Correct Language to Describe People is 70% Stupid.

Great Debates
1

I’ll be you’re wondering where I got that percentage, aren’t you? The usual dark tunnel that percentages come from, of course.

I am a good liberal gal, and I have to say I’m really sick of politically correct terms for various human conditions and features. I really don’t get it. It seems to me that a group of people decides a term is offensive after it’s been in use for awhile.

I was prompted to this thread by my own thread about the “little person” Peter Dinklage. Why “little person” vs. dwarf? Dwarf is a perfectly respectable word that is actually more precise than “little person”, in that it specifically describes the nature of a person’s littleness: dwarfism. Lots of people are little without being dwarves.

I understand a little better when an otherwise descriptive term like “retarded” mophs into a widely-heard insult and as a result becomes offensive to the ears just from the repetition of hearing it used that way. But even then, if you buy into that too much, every descriptive term will have to be discarded periodically.

An interesting example of how this can become kinda silly is the terms used for Negros (Evidently this is considered very Un-PC these days. It’s a perfectly good word, however, from the Spanish/Portuguese meaning “black”, and ""Professor Booker T. Washington, being politely interrogated … as to whether negroes ought to be called ‘negroes’ or ‘members of the colored race’ has replied that it has long been his own practice to write and speak of members of his race as negroes, and when using the term ‘negro’ as a race designation to employ the capital ‘N’ " [“Harper’s Weekly,” June 2, 1906])

Negro: in use for many decades until the 60’s, then
Black: in use until when, the 90’s? when
African American: Current, but also used is
Person of Color: which is fascinatingly close to
Colored: considered the semi-polite way to reference Negros during the 20th century.

I am not “weight-challenged” or “a person of size” - I’m fat. I have lots of genuine, real adipose tissue on my body. I am a fat person. This is not rude, it is true. Now, mocking me with other terms, taking “fat” and turning it to “fatass”, “fatso” etc IS rude, because it is not merely descriptive and is not intended to be merely descriptive.

But, on the other hand, I do have Native American blood, Cherokee specifically. That is one I get, because “Indian” was always a result of European cluelessness and lack of respect for the reality of Native Americans and their place in this country.

So…anyone care to debate?

2

I always liked Indian or AmerIndian. Other words, such as the overly-gracious First Nations (decent chance they weren’t, too) or the silly Indigeonous Americans are just too much.

3

My Indian wife’s family (real Indian, biologically and culturally, not this "might be 1% Cherokee princess stuff) uses “Indian” almost exclusively.

Occaisionally, “native”. I don’t think I’ve ever heard “native American”.

Which leads me to believe that much of this name changing is coming from outside of the specific group. It’s a way of showing the world how sensitive you are without actually doing anything that requires any effort or making any substantive changes.

4

You know, I just never understand why it’s considered such a chore to call people what they prefer to be called.

And I always thougth that “Fat” was an acceptable term? Isn’t the large organization for acceptance for “People of Heft” known as the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/e/a/1999/02/16/NEWS1474.dtl&o=0

But hey, if someone who IS fat tells me that “fat” is offensive to them, then I’ll just ask them what they prefer and use that for them instead.

It really takes such little effort.

5

You had me until the “Indian” reference, where it appeared you dismantled your own argument.

Those people not wanting to be called “black”, “colored” etc are 70% stupid while I’m not an “Indian.” (and presumably part of the 30% who are smart)

6

PC terms can become ridiculous, but I think you have the “Negro” thing wrong. My guess (and it is just a guess) is that “Negro” is just too close to “Nigger” (especially when pronounced with a southern accent), and so "Black"kinda makes sense. The whole African-American thing is overblown, and one thing I’ve learned here is that most Blacks just use the term “Black”. “People of Color” is an odd term, but it was coined to be more inclusive of other minorities, not just Blacks, so it’s really not the same thing at all.

African-American is simply too cumbersome a term, I think, to displace “Black”. Seven syllables is going to lose out to 1 syllable pretty much any day of the week.

7

I think we should distinguish offensive words from archaic words. Negro is not considered offensive, but it has been made archaic because of it’s association with offensive times. If I hear someone use the word “Negro”, I assume they are behind the times, not with it, and are probably old-fashioned with it comes to race. But that doesn’t mean I’m offended by their word choice.

Likewise for colored. Like Negro, colored has been left in the past (in the US) because of its association with segregation.

As far as African American goes, I think it actually serves a purpose independent of PCness. When used correctly, it distinguishes the descendents of American slaves from other “Negroes”. If one wants to talk about the culture of these people, “African American culture” is a nice way of saying it. It also labels an ethic group by geography rather than skin color. We can speak of Italian Americans, German Americans, and Asian Americans. Why not speak of African Americans?

In addition, there’s something to be said for people finding a name and embracing it for themselves, rather than using the label that someone else came up for them. “Negro” comes from the European colonizers. “Colored” assumes a default (my father used to say, “Crayons are colored. I’m not a crayon”). “Black” was a name with negative connotation that was reclaimed and turned into a political identity–making it different from the labels before it. “African American” has traction because it gives black people a name that’s similar to other ethnic groups–one that has nothing to do with skin coloring. It shouldn’t surprise anyone why names get discarded with changes in social dynamics.

I agree that there has been PC abusement of “African American”, which is why I don’t use it except in specific contexts. But I don’t understand why so many white people have a problem with it. How is “African American” is any different than “black American”? And who is demanding that you use AA, since most of the black people I know prefer to be called “black”?

8

I’ve always tried to be “PC,” for the reason El Gui stated above – it’s just calling people what they prefer to be called. If someone asks me to call them a little person rather than a dwarf, and I insist on using dwarf, I’m not being some cool, un-PC guy; I’m just being a rude asshole.

There’s not a whole lot of consistent logic to the PC movement, but that doesn’t invalidate it. I don’t need some set of rules to divine the proper term ahead of time. Instead, I take my best guess and go with it. For example, I prefer black to African American, because the African immigrants I’ve met generally take some offense to being improperly called AA, but if someone were to tell me they prefer African American (hasn’t happened yet), I’d sincerely apologize and use their term of choice.

It’s not some burden. If some white guy wanted to be called “melanin challenged,” and if I thought it were important to respect him (i.e., he’s not some douchebag at a bar or a friend screwing around with me), I’d inwardly roll my eyes and call him melanin challenged. It’s no skin off my honkey back.

9

I’m not sure what we’re debating. Are some PC terms euphemistic and less than clear or helpful? Definitely. But I’ve never understood why some people talk about these terms like using one instead of another is an inconvenience. I remember writing a paper when I was in fifth grade where I used Negro instead of black in referring to Arthur Ashe. I thought Negro sounded nicer. The teacher explained that it’s not considered a polite term anymore, I never used it again and that was that.
So what do you mean when you say Negro is “perfectly good?” What’s good about it if it’s not the term people prefer to use? I can understand why you would object if black or was misleading or dishonest, but it isn’t. (It’s not perfectly accurate, but it can’t be any more or less accurate than Negro.) “African-American” can be vague, it’s true. But the most important thing is what monstro says - “Negro” is associated with racism and slavery. The connotations of a word matter, and I can understand why people would prefer not to be called a word that conjures images of segregated buses and water fountains.

10

So, calling American citizens living in the U.S. “African Americans” when they or their parents, grandparents, etc. migrated from Africa is incorrect. What do we call them then?

Well, first of all we have the problem of what we’re going to call recent immigrants from Africa that live in the U.S., since you think African American is inappropriate for them because they’re “other Negroes”. We also sometimes call Italian American just “Italian”, but if we called African Americans just “Africans”, I’m assuming most African American wouldn’t like that and most would assume we were talking about recent immigrants from Africa.

I think you just nailed why so many white people have a problem with it. I’ve heard the following basic rant from more than a couple of people.

“What are we supposed to call them these days? They didn’t like the n-word, so it became negro. Then they didn’t like that and wanted to be called colored. Then that was no longer good, so they went by being black. And now African-American, but some of them still prefer being called black, so what are we to do?”

11

I don’t think many people have a problem with it per se. It’s just a confusing issue because many prefer “African American” while others prefer “black”. I have no way of knowing if I meet you for the first time which you prefer. So, if I use the “wrong” one, and the person politely corrects with what they specifically prefer to be used in their presence, then so be it. But, if a person pretends to be offended when clearly no offense was intended, then I’ll roll my eyes and dismiss the person as looking to be offended.

Also, as you note, most people I’ve met do prefer “black” to “African American”. So why is “African American” used almost exclusively in the media? In that regard, it seems like it is being thrust upon people who don’t want it.

My mother still uses “oriental”. In her time, no offense was meant by that. She tries her best, but still slips up. To me, it shouldn’t be offensive unless it’s intended to be offensive.

12

Since Africa isn’t a country, why not use the country they came from. Kenyan-American is more of an analog to Italian-American, wouldn’t you say?

Still, I think most Americans (most Whites, at least) consider AA and Black to be synonymous, regardless of when the person’s ancestors came from Africa. Witness Barack Obama. Perhaps it would seem odd to call someone with a strong accent from his home country an African-American, but not someone who was Black and was born in the US.

13

What I don’t understand why the change in terminology used for black people bother so many white people. Why would any one really be hangering to use “Negro” and “colored”, anway? I mean, I could understand if you were elderly and you still had these words fastened to your brain or something. But “black” as a descriptor has been around for been around for quite some time now, and has shown no signs of being phased out by the PC police. Even though “African-American” may be used by some people as a euphemism for black, there’s been no large-scale movement to expunge “black” from our vocabulary. I have yet to see any compelling evidence that significant numbers of black folk are offended by “black”.

When debating PCness, I wish people would leave the whole “First they wanted to be called Negro, now they want to be call African-American” gripe out of it. It’s just cliche at this point, and looks like an excuse to jump on an old bandwagon.

14

I’m not a big fan of Indian, sinply because there are two large and relevant groups of people who have those names. For that reason, I prefer Native American, simply because it’s slightly more accurate (what, they were Americans before we got here? What the hell?). But if I slip up and say “Indian”, I’ll differentiate by saying “casino Indian” or “slurpee Indian.”

Yes, I’m the picture of social grace.

15

It doesn’t matter what I say. Apparently what matters is what people prefer to call themselves. I know a lot of Koreans who usually label themselves as just Asians. I have a feeling if Kenyan-Americans weren’t accepted as African-Americans by the “descended from slaves” African-Americans in their communities, places of employment, etc., they wouldn’t be too happy about it.

16

You forgot “Afro-American”, which was the term of choice in the late 60s and early 70s.

Which is exactly why I (and others I know) prefer the term “Indian”. My grandmother explained it to me this way. After our ancestors were starved, enslaved, poisoned, massacred, uprooted, and pillaged of practically all their possessions, it is some small consolation to be able to remind ourselves of just how clueless and stupid our conquerors were.

17

How does it make you feel better to be defeated by incompetents?

18

Well, that’s what people are saying here. You’re the one who said it was we had a “problem” of what to call recent African immigrants. I think there is some argument about whether or not recent African immigrants can use African-American, but it’s a tiny blip on the radar screen. Do you here any big hullabaloo about Obama using that term? Sure, there’s some chatter here and there, but it just isn’t a major issue.

Why not just call people what they want to be called and not worry about it so much? Frankly, I just like the term “American” for anyone born here unless there is some really significant reason to talk about the person’s ethnicity or skin color. When Tiger Woods wins a golf tournament, to me he’s just a guy who wins, not a Black guy who wins.

19

What sort of evidence would you like? Do you think the experiences that Fiveyearlurker had was made up or that his are unusual? In my own experiences some strongly dislike black and some strongly dislike African-American. It’s a crap shoot.

20

Because that’s too hard for Americans to do.