I was reading a few old stories about Batman. These stories were written in 1939 and 1940. They were both set in New York City. I never realized the early Batman books had him set there. The third story I read was written in 1944, by then Batman was living in stately Wayne Manor right outside of Gotham City. Where he has been ever since, as far as I know. (With occasional forays into Penthouse apartments in downtown Gotham.)
What caused the writers to change the story’s setting from New York City to Gotham City?
I always thought Gotham was intended to BE NYC in the DC universe. Just like Metropolis is supposed to be L.A.
From a practical standpoint, maybe they just wanted to avoid continuity problems… i.e., have a supervillain blow up buildings and not have morons write in and say, “I was in New York just yesterday and the Flatiron building does NOT have glowing holes punched in it.”
DC once published a guide to their universe that included a map. All the cities we have were on it. In addition, Gotham City was there in New Jersey, and Metropolis was in Delaware. Both on the east coast.
I don’t know what has been happening lately (except for Kingdom Come I haven’t read many comic books since The Crisis) but I had always thought that Gotham and Metropolis were both NYC.
Metropolis is the New York of the museums and Broadway, Gotham is the New York of the slums and peep shows.
Both Gotham and Metropolis were supposed to be NYC, mainly because the comic book industry was centered in New York. (I suppose you could make the case that Metropolis was supposed to be Cleveland, since that’s where Siegel and Schuster came from, but, contrary to the mythology, they had already moved to New York and had been writing comics there when they sold Superman.)
They changed from New York to Gotham (and “Gotham” has been a nickname for New York) because they didn’t want to deal with real people and places.
This is an excerpt of an excerpt of a book called Gotham: A History of New York City to 1898.
Metropolis=Toronto?? I’m not familiar with the early comic books, but thinking back to the lame TV show, why would Superman be fighting for “truth, justice, and the American way” in Ontario? On the other hand, Metropolis was Calgary in one of the movies.
Yes, Metropolis was based on Toronto, but is generally accepted to be an American east cost city, probably Atlantic City or somesuch. LA was the Green Lantern’s hangout, known in the comics as Coast City. It was destroyed by… GRRR… damn. Green and purple dude, silver trim, name starts with an M maybe? Forget his name. Blew the city away to build Engine City during the Reign of Supermen in 95. This eventually drove GL insane, leading to the destruction of all other GLs. The Flash’s city is supposed to be, what, San Diego?
Some might argue, however, that Gotham City is supposed to be the Bronx, and Metropolis Manhattan, or some other rot like that. Perhaps. I do like Frank Miller’s explaination, though. If not for Batman taking at least 30 minutes to an hour to appear when Superman signals him, I’d buy it.
I’ve been unable to find any reference to Batman living in New York and then moving to Gotham City. When Batman was introduced in Detective Comics #27 in 1939 he was fighting crime in Gotham City no New York.
I’ve also been unable to uncover any evidence that Gotham or Metropolis are actually New York City. I think it it highly likely that both of these places are based off of New York City. They’re both large cities with ports and they’re both located on the east coast.
Gotham, Metropolis, and Springfield from the Simpsons are share something in common. It is never mentioned what state these cities are located. In “Batman: Gotham Knights” #17 our hero Bruce Wayne formally adopts Dick Grayson (Robin I.) On the document you see “The State… County of Gothom.” A pen blocks our sight preventing us from knowing the name of the state that Gotham is located in.
I haven’t read Detective Comics #27, so I don’t know where he is located for that story.
I have in my hands a graphic novel entitled “The Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told.” The first two stories are from 1939, and the third is from 1940.
Batman Versus The Vampire, Part One
Originally presented in DETECTIVE COMICS #31, 1939
Batman Versus The Vampire, Part Two
Originally presented in DETECTIVE COMICS #31, 1939
Dr. Hugo Strange And the Mutant Monsters
Originally presented in BATMAN #1, 1940
In DETECTIVE COMICS #31 the first panel has the Batman swooping down from a rooftop. It is captioned. “Through the dark of a New York Night…”
DETECTIVE COMICS #32 is set in other countries as the Batman attempts to save his girlfriend.
BATMAN #1 features the Batman’s nemesis Hugo Strange. On the second page a panel is featured with a crowded street. This is it’s caption - “A Month Later… A crowed Street in lower Manhattan”
Gotham was not mentioned in either of these stories.
Wow, I have never heard that Metropolis was based on Toronto. I do like Frank Miller’s description best, though. Metropolis and Gotham have always seemed like New York to me.
RealityChuck and ChefTroy your ideas about why they switched makes sense. I was just wondering if any one has ever seen quotes from Bob Kane or someone from the early years talking about the switch.
I did want to make one thing clear. I just realized my thread title is slightly off. I didn’t mean to imply that there was ever a story that had the Batman moving from New York City to Gotham. I just figured they changed the setting, without mentioning that it used to be set in NYC.
Pat, you’re missing the simplest, most obvious answer as to why they changed Batman’s location to Gotham.
With a fictional city, the artists could draw the buildings looking however they wanted. If it were set in a real city, they’d feel like they were obligated to actually go out onto the streets and draw a realistic cityscape.
They moved him simply because the artists (like ALL artists :D) were lazy.
The early Batman titles features a hero which is fairly different then what he was today. In the early days Batman wasn’t above killing criminals and if I’m not mistaken he used a gun with silver bullets to kill a vampire monk. So I’ll revise my opinion. It is possible that Batman started out in New York. Or perhaps back in the early days Batman did a lot more travelling then he does now. I’m having a real hard time nailing down an answer because none of the Batman web sites have any information about this. They came out with a hardback book detailing the history of Batman a while back. Perhaps the answers we seek will be there.
I also wonder how the heck Gotham City somehow stayed in the 1930s with all the zeppelins, the art deco cars and buildings, the black-tie social structure and everything, but still was modern enough to have TV, computers, etc… and then Metropolis was just your average city.
Didn’t one of the Batman movies feature the ‘Statue of Gotham’ which looked remarkably similar to the Statue of Liberty except that someone had carved ‘Gotham’ in this really tacky way on her crown? Or am I imagining things.
I always thought that the Daily Planet building in Metropolis was supposed to be the Chrysler Building. At least in early versions of it… It sure LOOKS like the Chrysler Building.
Some comparisons in the TV shows…In the opening montage of “The Adventures Of Superman” (the George Reeves one) there is a shot of Los Angeles City Hall (a buliding he could leap in a single bound). That may explain the L.A. connection in Chef Troy’s post above. In the Batman TV series, Gotham was clearly New York City. They used stock exterior shots of NY. The map of Gotham in the Batcave was a map of Manhattan. Mayor Lindseed (Lindsay). There were many other such NYC references.
pricciar – actually I based my answer on a quote by – I think – Bob Kane to the effect “We couldn’t have all these things happening in New York.” But I couldn’t recall who, when, or the exact words.
Just FYI, some other comic book characters’ locations:
Aquaman - Atlantis
Spider Man - New York City
The X-Men - Near Washington, D.C.
The Tick - The City
Flaming Carrot - Iron City (more specifically, Palookaville)
The Mask - Edge City (in tribute to the film, Repo Man)
Space Ghost - Ghost Planet
Cerebus - Estarcion
Flash Gordon - Mongo