Why did Ben-Hur bomb?

Maybe it’s not about being butthurt, but more about just not being interested in seeing a biopic you know upfront will be difficult to suspend disbelief for.

Nina Simone was memorable to many precisely because she defied conventional ideas of what celebrated black female artists should do and look like. So I totally understand why casting Saldana–who checks all the boxes when it comes to “acceptable black beauty”–would be a hard sell for Nina Simone fans.

You mean like… posting on internet message boards? :wink:

Look at the bright side, I don’t think we had a new “inexplicably irresistible teenage girl brings all the vampires and werewolves to the yard” movie this year.

The problem with hiring Zoe Saldona is that they actually had to add makeup to make her more black. That means the woman’s darker skin is important to the narrative. Now, if there were some dearth of black actors who could play the role, that would be one thing. But there aren’t. This was star-casting.

Also, here’s a rule of thumb I have: if you’re argument boils down to calling the other side “butthurt” and otherwise belittling their concerns, it’s not going to be remotely convincing. It’s gonna be wrong, since you didn’t even stop to consider the other side.

It’s the same argument used by those who use SJW or PC in derogatory ways. And it clearly isn’t working out for them.

Part of the problem that Marvel had with casting the Ancient One is that it’s a no-win situation for them. The trope of Wise Oriental Spiritual/Magical/Kung-fu master is already a racist cliché, so putting an Asian actor in the role would be like casting an Indian cab driver or Jewish banker. On the other hand, casting a non-Asian brings accusations of white-washing. I actually think Tilda Swanson is a pretty good choice - her androgynous performance gives her an exotic “otherness” that traditionally was achieved by making the character Tibetan.

Would it have been racist to cast a white performer as the wise old master of the mystic and martial arts who lives up in the Himalayas and imparts hard-won occult knowledge to Stephen Strange, the hotshot New York surgeon who (a) injured his hands pretty badly in that car accident, and (b) is played by John Cho?

(I’d pay good money to watch that movie.)

IMO, a big part of the problem is that (in movies at least), that Wise Oriental Spiritual/Magical/Kung-fu master was usually played by a white dude in yellowface. Now it’s a white chick not in yellowface, which is at least a half-step up, but not all the way. An actual Asian person, male or female, with the character more fleshed out and rounded so there was more to them than “mentor to the white guy” would have been ideal.

Edit: I would have loved seeing Cho as Doc Strange!

If erasing an Asian character from a film is discriminatory to Asians, you can’t “cancel that out” by adding more black people to the film. That’s kind of like asking, “If I donate a lot of money to the NAACP, does that make up for calling that Chinese guy a chink last week?” That only works if the only two races in the world are, “White people,” and “Other.”

I hear “white people” and “people of color” a lot.

The same reason Ghostbusters did. Nobody wanted to see it.

So what? From the perspective of the studios, which is going to do better? A biopic about a musician and activist with Zoe Saldana in the lead role, or the same movie with an unknown actress who’s a dead ringer for Nina Simone?

And I disagree that making Saldana darker for the role means that it was important to the narrative. It probably means they’re just trying to make her look as similar as possible within reason. Same reason that whoever plays Abraham Lincoln has a beard- trying to look the part. Could someone play Lincoln without a beard? Sure. Other than looking the part, there’s nothing about beards at all in the context of his career or assassination.

The big problem is that the largest audience for comic book and superhero movies is China, which would have banned the film if there was a Tibetan character in it.

How about this movie about the Obamas that’s opening this weekend?

I predict it will not be a box office blockbuster. :dubious:

Well, if viewers opt not to see the movie because they see Zoe Saldana as a poor casting choice, it doesn’t matter what the perspective of the studios is. The people have spoken. Either they start listening to the people or they keep making movies that yield poor profits. Totally their choice.

You present a false dichotomy anyway. Zoe Saldana is not the only black actress on the planet with acting cred. At any rate, if whites are given breakout roles, why not do the same for blacks? Then give supporting roles to much bigger names.

But it only cost $1.5 million to make.

If a film like that grosses a little over $12 million, it’s pulled in eight times its budget; if a film like BEN-HUR grosses a little over $12 million, that’s – what, one-eighth of its budget? One would be a great return on investment, and the other a flop.

Bold prognostication, there, really going out on a limb, aren’t we? :stuck_out_tongue:

Make Doctor Strange be a real doctor - cast Ken Jeong.

It’s not about acting cred, it’s about star power. The only Black actresses I can think of with enough star power to carry a movie are Saldana and Halle Berry. There may be others, but I’m not immediately thinking of them. We’re not discussing acting ability here. Just the ability to get people interested simply by being in the movie.

I agree, that should be done much more often. But a biopic probably isn’t the place to do it. Biopics generally need names to carry them, they tend not to make names. Breakout roles tend to be romantic and action movies, probably because those movies are inherently popular and give exposure. Which is why it’s even more important to cast minorities in superhero movies. Up and coming stars get given biopic and historical roles after they have proven they can carry romantic or action roles. I can’t think of any star whose breakout was a biopic.

Jennifer Lopez, Selena

Chadwick Boseman, 42

More importantly,

Yes, they have them–the names of their subjects. That’s mostly who people go to see, not the actors. The best biopics are the ones where you can forget you’re not watching the actual person. If anything, established stars in the roles can detract a little from that (Jamie Foxx being the giant exception IME).