Why did credit cards not take off in Japan?

A book I read some years ago detailed the experiences of a westerner who had worked his way into yakuza society.

He pointed out that since Japan has such a cash-based society and because the largest bank note denomination is roughly equivalent to US$20 (true?), that the crime boss literally had bales and bales of cash stacked in huge piles all over his house. He had so much cash in the house that it was blocking doorways. The crime boss’s wife spent most of her time physically transferring cash by the car load to and from the house in service of her husband’s enterprises and she found it to be a time-consuming burden.

Could that be a reasonably expected scenario in Japan (for a crime boss, anyway, I suppose)?

There is a 10,000 yen note, worth approx US $100. It has a picture of Fukuzawa Yukichi on it. As I said above, I regularly carried the equivelant of US $200-300 in my wallet, and that was typically in the form of 2-3 10,000 yen bills.

I don’t think there’s a bigger bill than that, but I’m note sure. When I closed out my bank account I got it all in 10,000 yen notes. There might be some other reason a gangster would be handling large quantities of 2,000 yen notes, like that being what his clients usually paid with.

I actually lived in an area with a very visible yakuza presence, but I can’t say I ever asked any of those guys how they handled their money! I don’t see why they couldn’t just put most of it in the bank, though. A lot of yakuza money is earned in ways that are more-or-less legal, and I’m sure they have ways to launder money.

Missed the last edit window:

Wikipedia tells me that the 10,000 yen note dates back to the late '50s, and it seems unlikely a Westerner would be hanging around much with gangsters in Japan before that time. But I don’t know what 10,000 yen would have been worth back then, it may have been a lot less than US $100.

The only thing I found at all inconvenient about dealing with cash all the time in Japan was that you can’t get bank notes worth less than 1,000 yen, or around US $10. Anything in a smaller denomination is a coin. The wallet I went to Japan with didn’t have a very big coin pocket, so I wound up buying a new one to hold all my 100 and 500 yen coins.

It seemed very funny to me at first to be able to go into a fast food place and pay for my whole meal with a single coin! The newer 500 yen coins are big and gold colored, and using them always made me want to say “Arrr, here’s yer booty! Now be givin’ me my grub!”

Well, I have no idea how the US military works.

I’m just pointing out that opening an account isn’t any trouble at all and it can come in handy if you expect to have any sort of income (salary, grants) or want to convenience of paying your bills automatically or using bank transfers, which are the preferred method of making large payments.

The 2000 yen notes are fairly recent, though. Interestingly, even though theoretically there is the same amount of 2000 and 5000 yen notes in circulation, you almost never see 2000 yen bills. Cashiers apologize when they hand one to you. The only people who carry large amounts of 2000 yen bills are tourists who got them in foreign currency shops.

The only link I can find with 10,000 yen and $20 bills is that, unless I’m wrong, they’re both the default bill handed out by ATM. When I lived in Canada, almost all ATMs only handed out $20 bills, and the same is true of ATMs and 10,000 yen notes here.

It was. At the time of the 1971 ‘dollar shock’ the rate was 360yen/dollar. Judging by old manga describing what people could buy with just a few yen, it may have been much less valuable in the immediate post-occupation era.

One thing that may encourage using cash instead of cards is that there is little or no resistance to accepting high-denomination bills, like there is in the US. I apologize when all I have is 10,000yen for a tiny purchase, but no merchant has ever refused it.

They were on a treadmill.

This is a good point. Some merchants in the US balk and moan when presented with a 20 dollar bill for small purchases, assuming that the customer is simply trying to get small change. Sometimes, though, I just want a bag of chips and only have a 20 dollar bill for payment.

In Japan, however, it is incredibly common to pay for something like a bag of chips and a coke (total value about 200 yen) at the local convenience store with a 10,000 yen note. Hell, at 7-11 it is nearly the only option available because, as mentioned earlier in the thread, they rather famously don’t accept credit cards for payment, even though other large convenience store chains in Japan do.

I too used to feel ashamed whenever I paid using large bills, but it’s finally gotten to the point where I think nothing of it. Stores here are generally more than well-equipped to handle large bills. Heck, even vending machines, as a general rule, accept 1000 yen bills (or in some cases, more).

I think the main reason credit cards didn’t become popular is because Japan’s domestic market is very underdeveloped compared to the US. While small businesses (usually defined as 200–500 employees) make up something like 98% of the US’s economy, even smaller mom-and-pop businesses are the majority in Japan. Even in Tokyo there are a vast number of shops that are family run; usually the first floor is the shop and the second floor is the family’s residence. Zoning seems to be a new concept still, as anything equivalent to imminent domain is very weak so a single person can block a development project, which is one practical limitation to large centralized businesses. Chain stores are increasing but still don’t have nearly the power or reach that they do in the US.

For example, where I live is semi-rural by Japanese standards, about 20,000 people, adjacent to small city of 50,000 people or so. There’s practically no separation, so they’d be considered the same town/area in the US. There is a single department store here, and that went out of business a couple of years ago (they were bought out by a different department store company, though). Nearly every shop here is a single-building private business/residence. While there is a trend toward bigger businesses and chains in Tokyo and larger cities, even there the domestic market is very fragmented and small-scale.

In California, I went to high school in a similarly sized place, population of about 50,000. In contrast, there were a few strip malls, a Target, a K-Mart, and a WallMart which was built the year I graduated. Even near my grandmother’s place up in the foothills, there were a couple of big chain stores and attached strip malls built to service an area that probably had less population, more isolated by far, than my current town in Japan. There were very few small private businesses.

These small Japanese businesses usually have low margins, and credit card transaction fees would probably eat into those. I’m not sure if vendors have to buy the credit card readers, but I’ll bet that they do; that’s an additional expense. There aren’t many business or vendor associations for collaborative bargaining, which might offer better deals for local businesses with the credit card companies.

Couple those practical reasons with the incredible inertia of Japanese society, and the “short” history of credit card usage in Japan (from the 1960s vs. from the 1930s in the US) and you run into some cultural blocks.

As an example, the cracks in the personal guarantor system for large purchases, and particularly residence rent or mortgages, are just now appearing. Guarantor companies are starting to fill the gaps in modern Japanese society, where it’s not always possible to find a relative or friend who is willing to be personally responsible for your debts if you default on a loan or can’t pay your rent. The 保証人 (guarantor) system has held for generations past the point where it probably should have given way to a more flexible and financially mature system. Such systems in the US had mostly disappeared by the 1950s or 60s, as far as I know.

I’ll be moving soon, and this will be the first time I’ve ever gone through a company rather than having to find an individual who could serve as my guarantor. My Japanese wife was surprised to find that such a business even existed; she thought we were going to have to use her father as a guarantor.

The relatively quick adoption of suica electronic payment vs. credit cards is partly because of the the home-grown nature of the service. They also supported it really well. There was integration with the train lines when it was first introduced, and it branched out into the immensely influential mobile phone market from there. In addition, electronic transfers had already become more established by 2000 (when I first came here) than they were in the US. Americans had adopted ATM pay points to a much greater extent than I ever saw in Japan, but direct deposit and other electronic payments between banks were still fledgling, and are probably still utilized less by private citizens than they are in Japan.

Nearly all of my bills (rent, power, credit card, water, gas) are paid by direct automatic bank transfer. In some cases, it’s difficult to opt out of such an arrangement since it offers such an advantage to the companies in getting payments on time, and shifts the burden of fee collection partially to the bank. In the US, direct transfers are still distrusted to a certain extent, probably because the more primitive (IMO) check system already existed and had a long history while offering some convenience and protection vs. cash. In Japan, people moved from cash to bank transfers with no middle ground, so it had faster uptake.

While revolving credit does exist, it’s not automatic the way it is with US card companies. The option to pay once or twice is usually dictated by the vendor, not the credit card company, and it’s very uncommon to offer longer payment periods. Any revolving balance on cards that I have requires negotiation with the credit card company to arrange an alternate payment schedule. Where Japanese people usually get themselves in trouble with credit is with cash advances on their credit cards, or getting money from loan agencies, サラ金, which are a bit like check cashing places.

40 million yen (around 400,000 USD) found in cash at a Wakayama shrine just the other day.

http://www.asahi.com/national/update/0220/OSK200902200077.html
(Japanese language)

Ah, interesting question.

If you want a mortgage to buy a home, the bank needs to see proof of emplyment and income. They usually also want a (small (5 %) down payment. You can get only as much mortgage as a few times your year’s income. And the bank usually sells you some form of insurance so that if you can’t pay anymore, the insurance takes over.

As for cars, most luxury cars are owned (with tax benefits) by the company you work for. They “lease” the car to you as a kind of employment benefit. If your employer doesn’t have such a lease plan, most people just buy a car they have saved for and can afford. Note that public transport here takes care of most transport needs of young people untill they setlle down with a job and kids. So most Duch buy their first car at a much later age then their USA counterparts.

College education; the government has set up a bank that gives out study loans at small interest, but only to students and only if they can prove they are still studying.

Other expensive stuff… most Dutch tend not to want to get into debt over luxury stuff. Credit companies and credit banks have tried for years to get people to think of “living with a loan” as a hip lifestyle, with slogans like " I live now". But it hasn’t really taken off, saving up is still our culture.

I don’t usually use a credit card for small purchases, unless I’m flat out of cash for the month (thankfully less common now that I’m out of school) or have forgotten to move cash from savings to checking (if I have $10 in checking and $2000 in savings and I use the debit card to pay for $15 in groceries, my bank charges me $35 for the trouble of moving the extra $5 from one account to the other before paying the merchant :rolleyes:).

I do use a debit card for pretty much everything, unless the amount is under $3 or so. The major reason I get cash is for doing laundry, and the main reason I buy stuff with cash is to break the $20 bills from the ATM into $5s and $10s (since I don’t usually do $20 worth of laundry at a shot and I don’t want to have to carry around $10 in quarters). I usually get $40 in cash once a week from the ATM at work and that’s it - everything else gets swiped for. I’m uncomfortable carrying around more than $50-60 in cash anyway.

Of course, it’s not necessarily obvious to bystanders that it’s a debit card (although it does say “debit” in tiny letters); my debit card and my credit card are from the same bank and look identical except for color (blue-and-gold vs blue-and-silver).

There are actually quite a few people who do use their credit cards for even small purchases, though. If you’ve got an airline mileage deal or other incentive attached to it, it’s often worth it to treat a credit card as if it were a debit card, making sure that you’ve got actual cash to cover anything you buy, but maximizing your usage by using it for everything you possibly can. I get United and associated mileage points on my card (which is a relatively new thing for Japan, though similar programs been around in the US for close to 20 years) so I pay utility bills through it, buy groceries, gas, incidentals, pretty much anything I can.

Like I pointed out, though, the places I can use one here are relatively limited. If I could pay rent on it, I probably would so that I’d get that huge chunk of mileage points every month. Considering that it costs around $1,000 for me to fly back home and visit family, the miles are quite useful.

Personally I’d guess that it didn’t take off because computerization is just now making its way into banking. Walk into any bank in Japan, ten years ago, and you’d quickly realize that everything is paper and people powered. Specifically it was all woman powered. That’s still true, but instead of women and filing cabinets it’s women and laptops. But still, things are pretty non-centralized.