Why did I get an official warning for supposedly insulting Forrest Gump?

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1

I called Forrest Gump a “retard”. That is a term used in the movie yet Chronos gave me an official warning over it. I do not believe that is justified and I want it reversed. I have been an upstanding member for over 17 years and this is one of the most insane moderator rulings that I have ever encountered. Maybe we run in different circles, but “retard” is a common term even in my workplace and only mildly derogatory. It just means that you did something a little dumb and has nothing to do with truly disabled people. We have more harsh terms for people that truly screw up.

How can you have hate speech against someone that never existed from an Academy Award winning movie from the 90’s (I love the movie BTW and think it is inspirational)?

In any case, I want to know what rule I broke by supposedly insulting a fictional character? I have a feeling that it was just an overreach by a moderator that doesn’t like diversity of opinions, especially mine, and that is not the role of a moderator in my opinion.

Hate speech?

Here is the full exchange:

Originally Posted by Chronos
Dear Shagnasty,

You have received a warning at Straight Dope Message Board.

Reason:

Hate speech

I think that it’s pretty clear that the word “retard” in this context counts as an offensive slur, in the same category as ethnic slurs. “Retarded person” would have worked just as well, and not been offensive.

Previously by me:

What I am saying is that the book(s) and the movie aren’t that closely related. I have read the books and seen the movie dozens of times. At least in the movie, she died of AIDS complications. That is made abundantly clear without being blatantly stated. It really doesn’t matter what the book says because the screenwriters completely rewrote the entire story to be a montage of late 20th century history as seen through a retards eyes.
Warnings serve as a reminder to you of the forum’s rules, which you are expected to understand and follow.

All the best,

Later…

I am sorry Chronos and I will take the warning if needed but I still don’t see the justification based on forum rules. I have been here over 17 years and never received a warning because I obey the rules. I can’t see how discussing a fictional character would justify a warning.

Can you point me to which specific rule I broke? Forrest Gump is one of my favorite movies that I have seen dozens of times. The whole point of the movie is viewing American history through an idiot’s life. It won an Academy Award for it. I can’t see how changing the terminology in a subtle way makes anything different. That is just PC culture gone bad. It doesn’t change the fact that Forrest had a very serious mental deficiency no matter what you call it but still turned out to be a great person. I take it as an inspirational story more than anything.

I never insulted any real person so please explain the reasoning.

2

So after your Pit thread what part do you not get?

That “retard” is an extremely offensive word to describe someone with cognitive impairment, or as you say with “a very serious mental deficiency”? It is not “changing the terminology in a subtle way.”

Or that “it’s fiction” is no defense? (Referring to the Sally Fields character as “the cunt” or a Jewish character in some movie as “the kike” would be okay because the characters are not real?)

3

Link?

4

I am not being deliberate obtuse. The term “retard” is in common use in my area (New England) and isn’t considered especially offensive. We use it all the time for everyone. I got called it today at work and I just laughed.

I still don’t know why “retarded person” is considered preferable. Is it impossible to think that there may be dialect and stylist differences among people that aren’t trying to engage in “hate speech”? That seems a little provisional and close-minded to me.

I am also heard that “midget” is considered offensive these days even though I still have no idea why. Not everyone gets the cheat sheets to know the appropriate terms of the day. That is the problem with PC speak. It is a moving target with no rhyme or reason.

Believe it or not, most people, including me, aren’t trying to offend anyone. We just haven’t been indoctrinated into the PC orthodoxy enough to know what terms are acceptable this week and which ones are a human rights violation.

How would you describe Forrest Gump and why is one term better than another?

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http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20514067

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actually for most of us who have in born physical or mental difficulties physically or mentally “disabled” is preferred

these days using “retarded” as a descriptor is like saying "that’s so gay "and has been for about 20 years …

7

Well, now you know.

I’m amazed at how upset people get for receiving a warning. What are you afraid of? It’s a fucking warning on an anonymous message board.

I’ve received a couple myself, years ago, but it taught me a lesson.

Learn from your warning and stop bitching about it.

It’s not like it’s going on your employment record; it’s just a simple warning to think about your word choices.

And yes, “retard” is offensive.

Move on for God’s sake.

8

I work with people with disabilities (PWD), including those with cognitive disabilities. I’m not using these words and phrases to be politically correct. They are the legal words we use, and in the latter case, a specific set of disabilities. They are the words acceptable to the disabled community (the people and their caregivers), the civil rights groups, and the attorneys.

At best the use of the word “retard” or “retarded” is offensive. At worst both are pejorative to a level as to be hate speech. In our current political climate where a corruption of “retard” is used by some to describe another whose political leanings are different, there is an added sensitivity, and increased divisiveness. In the historic context of the time of Forrest Gump, calling someone a retard, or retarded, was benign, even “acceptable” in many circles. It is not today. You may not have an issue with it in your part of the country, within your circle. It is not where I live (PNW), and in my circle potential grounds for job termination.

Perhaps if you framed your comment more clearly in the historic context of the storyline, instead what you did, along with acknowledged real life, present day sensitivity, you might have escaped the warning. But I’m not Chronos, nor a mod.

9

I can’t tell if you are arguing with or against me but that is a good comparison. “That’s so gay” rarely has anything to do with actual homosexuals. It is its own phrase. I am not saying it is the classiest thing to say but it certainly doesn’t imply that the person saying it is a homophobe or referring to homosexuals at all. The term “gay” has always had multiple meanings.

10

Multiple people have told you why your framing of the issue is inaccurate. It was never about insulting a fictional character. Chronos specifically said he warned you for hate speech, so I don’t get why you keep trying to reframe that as “insulting a fictional character.”

His warning was also in alignment with pretty much all the other comments in that thread and in your Pit thread that actually addressed the issue (rather than just insulting you). So it would probably help to actually read that stuff, instead of saying the same thing that you said before that.

That said, I do see some unfairness in your Warning. Chronos apparently just decided that the word “retard” crosses the line. Since you didn’t know that ahead of time, it would make sense for him to give you a mulligan on this one, and say that further uses of that word will qualify as breaking the hate speech rule.

As it is, this is an ex post facto rule, and I think that is you best argument for getting the Warning rescinded. Not trying to frame this as “insulting a fictional character.” Because that’s not what you were Warned for. You used a slur, and Chronos has decided the slur is bad enough that it breaks the hate speech rule.

I don’t know how you’ve missed the very public campaign to get people to stop saying that word. It’s been going on since at least 2011.

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I think it is the part about getting a warning for using a slur that has never been prohibited on these boards before, either against off board people or against other posters in the Pit.

I do agree that if it is considered to be hate speech then it is hate speech whether directed at a real person or fictional character. But it isn’t considered to be hate speech by TPTB here, and this warning was for using hate speech.

We just had this whole discussion a few months ago in another ATMB thread about the term Mongoloid being used as a slur, and even more recently in the Pit thread you mentioned.

In the thread about “Mongoloid”, retard was even used as a specific example by a mod to illustrate why that type of slur has never been moderated here before.

I’m not a fan of the use of the term, and most especially the repeated use of it after being told it was offensive instead of politely finding another term but if anything that was warn-able for some offense other than the use of hate speech.

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I am not going to get upset about it just like I am not right now. I just wanted to understand the reasoning behind it because I thought it was so odd. Again, I don’t think insulting a fictional character should be a warnable offense to anyone. I never thought the term was anything more than mildly demeaning.

If “retard” is really that offensive, I am going to have to think about how I am going to retaliate when I get called that or worse tomorrow at work. Not really, I don’t give two shits. I work in a high pressure industrial facility. People make up new insults for coworkers every day and that is just the women but it is all in the name of camaraderie. If any us were as sensitive as some people seem to be here, people all over the U.S. won’t be getting critical medical treatments.

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Come on, dude. You knew exactly the response you would get and you were hoping for it. Come on, be honest.

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Yes, indeed, calling Sally Fields or her character =a “cunt” is perfectly legal. "The following expressions should not be directed* at other posters.*

cunt and variants, e.g., cuntlapper"

Italics mine.

This is a bad warning. “Retard” is of course insulting, and should not be used vs other posters, outside the Pit. Hell, if it was banned in the PIT vs other posters, that would be Ok by me.

But since when has using these terms vs Imaginary beings who are not posters been worthy of a warning?

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20512931#post20512931

Kinthalis: "I’m going to assume you’ve gone full retard on us here because you just love guns so much, and not that you’re having a stroke.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20497218&highlight=retard#post20497218
** Billfish678**:Or in other words…Trump being a message retard does not negate these kneeling millioniares from also being message retards…

Called Trump and real professional athletes = “retards”.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20480721&highlight=retard#post20480721

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20472433#post20472433
Chimera: Ah yes, so the true alt-right retard comes shining through in the end. We knew what you were.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20470126#post20470126

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20452631&highlight=retard#post20452631

Blank Slate:8:52 AM. In a retard Adaher thread. Hey, this PC stuff works.

In at least two of these , other posters were called retards.

You know before you make up totally new rules, post something and hand out a few Notes.

If you wanna make “Retard” illegal, fine. But it wasn’t before, it has been used hundreds of times without a warning.

15

It’s still offensive. There are places in Indiana where the n-word is commonly used. I sure as heck wouldn’t try to justify its use by citing that.

Would you actually like to know? I can tell you. When “midget” was in common parlance, it referred to a specific condition, pituitary dwarfism, or people who were Little People because they lacked human growth hormone, not because they had a genetic condition. People who have pituitary dwarfism are proportional, and do not have any distinctive facial features that would lead to a diagnosis of something else, like achondroplasia, or primordial dwarfism.

Pituitary dwarfism has been treatable since the 1980s, with shots, first of human growth hormone from cadavers, and now from artificial HGH. There are no young people with this condition.

“Midget” was never a term that referred to all people with conditions of dwarfism, although all midgets could be considered to have dwarfism.

The preferred term by people with medical conditions that lead to short stature is “Little Person.” Unless you are talking about specific conditions, the term you should use is “Little Person.” Or “Little People.” Even doctors use these terms when describing these people collectively.

Since we don’t know what specific condition he has, and since it appears to be a global condition that affected his physical as well as mental development, I would go with “Developmentally disabled.” However, “mentally retarded” is not completely wrong. I don’t understand how you can’t see the difference between “retard” and “mentally retarded.” Can you see the difference between “lesbo” and “lesbian”? or “psycho” and “psychotic”? One is an acceptable term in common parlance; the other is an abbreviation meant to be dismissive and insulting.

16

I think the area of New England that you travel in may be a very small circle. The word is widely seen as a quite offensive pejorative and has been for decades. Using “it all the time for everyone” is on par not just with “that’s so gay” but with calling people “fags” all the time as a general insult.

Gump was a character who had significant cognitive disability or perhaps intellectual impairments … and who ran fast and played a mean game of Ping Pong.

Maybe a “note” would have sufficed given that this was (apparently) ignorance rather than intentional offensive speech or tolling … but the fact that you don’t mind being called a retard, and possibly wouldn’t mind being called a fag or a kike or a cunt, does not change that those words all are widely heard as offensive. If being aware of that is “PC” then thank goodness for PC … which is also known as trying not act like a jerk.

17

Sure. But why wasn’t it modded any of the hundreds of other times it was used, even vs real people and other posters?

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I wasn’t hoping to get a response. The way I write on the board is exactly the same as I talk in real life as do most of my friends and colleagues. To be honest, I probably could have predicted that some of the usual suspects would become irrationally angry about a less than favorable description of a fictitious person but I was honestly surprised that people took it so seriously.

I am probably one of the foremost Forrest Gump scholars on this board. I love all of it. My description reflects the entire point. I take it that most of you have never read the original book. Get your smelling salts out before you do.

19

The acknowledgment that “retard” is unacceptable language has been around for forever. I am 59, and when I was about 9 years old, I said “what a retard!” within hearing of a Girl Scout leader. She let me know in no uncertain terms that the term was cruel and unacceptable. I didn’t necessarily understand the underlying reasoning, but I sure got the message.

I do understand why someone might mourn the passing of the term - maybe it is because I lived in New England for a long time, but I don’t “hear” the term (or its relative “retarded”) as offensive or having anything to do with people with genuine intellectual challenges. To me, there is just something slightly funny about the term that would, if I could, make it fun to use.

HOWEVER, I am not setting myself up as the arbiter of what terms are offensive and which aren’t. My basic rule is that I have enough respect for other people to follow their wishes in regard to simple requests like “please don’t use this term to describe me/us, it is derogatory.” I don’t HAVE to understand why people feel that way, although it’s good if I do. What I do need to do is show basic consideration to other people. Ergo - persons with disability and the groups that represent them have made it clear that “retard” and “retarded” are hurtful terms. What does it cost me to avoid them, then? Absolutely nothing.

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Oh, believe me, as much as I hated that movie, I am not even going to be in the same room as the book.