Why did my coop Board cashout the mtgg and raise the maint. anyway? NYC dopers, help!

At my co-op shareholder meeting last night, my coop Board did what appears to me to be a very odd thing. Maybe someone with experience in NYC real estate can explain it to me. I apologize for the long question, but I think all of this information is relevant. Here’s the background:

I live in a 214 unit, 17-floor building in Manhattan, on the upper east side. The building is about 50 years old. AFAIK, everything in the building is in pretty good shape, (major systems - boiler, plumbing, roof, elevators, electrical) with the exception of the bricks. Due to Local Law 11 (whatever that is), we have to repoint the bricks, which is going on now, and is estimated to cost $300-$350K. Otherwise, everything looks good - the hallways, the windows, the basement, etc.

Last year, the building had $1.3 million in reserves. At last year’s co-op shareholder meeting, the Board said that was a good amount and that they were happy with it. At last year’s meeting they also said that they were looking into refinancing the outstanding mortgage on the building. They were able to do that, and lowered the rate from 7.5% to 5.4%. Yay for us.

However, instead of lowering the maintenance (because the lower interest rate means we would pay less), they decided to cashout the mortgage. Meaning, they would take sort of a home equity loan from the amount built up in equity over the past years, so as to keep the maintenance amount the same. So they cashed out $800K this way, added it to the capital improvement budget, and therefore increased the reserve to $2.1 million.

This year, they say, the $2.1 million is a good number and they’re happy with that.

I called bullsh** on them at the meeting. I asked how much do they want in the reserve - $4 million; $10 million? How much is enough? They responded that they thought this amount was a good number that would increase the amount our apartments were worth. Bullsh**. Ads in the NY Times list the price of the apartment and the amount of maintenance. There is generally an inverse relationship between the two, so that lower maintenance increases the cost of the apartment. No ad says, “And the building has $2.1 million in reserves!” (In my experience in buying our apartment, we found that this keeps the total monthly amount of mortgage + maintenance payments relatively equal for relatively equivalent apartments.)

They also gave a reason that they felt that it was better to be borrowing this money now at 5.4% than to borrow it later at some future, unknown, and most likely higher amount if an emergency arises. I call bullsh** again. What emergencies arise in a coop building? There are major systems that need upgrading on a schedule. You put aside a bit of the maintenance money every year so that when it comes time to do these upgrades, the money’s just there. Otherwise, an “emergency” would be covered by insurance. That’s what insurance is for.

Then, to top it all off, even with this huge increase in the reserves, they increased the maintenance this year. Again. They said insurance and heating costs continue to rise. Bullsh** again. Their own figures show that insurance is just 2% of operating costs, and heating is just 8%.

Oh, and BTW, we just won a lawsuit last year with the parking garage in the building (a separate corporation), and as a result they now pay us $160,000 per year more now than they used to. This is absolutely free money, a total windfall, yet they continue to increase the maintenance every year. WTF?

I figure with all this new money coming in, at the very least they would not have a maintenance increase, and at best, they would lower the maintenance, or return the cashout money ($800K) back to the shareholders.

Are these coop Board people just greedy bastards, drunk with power, or is there a reason for this? Can anyone explain to me what’s really going on here?
Sorry if I was ranting, but it pisses me off!

D-O-O Economics? Anyone? Anyone?

Bueller? Bueller?

You were at the board meeting and I take it last year as well. I thought you posed some good questions.

If there are legit answers, the board members have them. The board members of your building, not the members of this board.

In Chicago they do, for big condo buildings. It’s meant to assure prospective buyers that they won’t get socked with 8k in special assessments because all the apartments need new windows. It is considered a selling point. My 360 unit 38 floor Chicago building has about 2.2 mil in reserve, and it is considered to be a healthy reserve.

I don’t think anyone can say whether 2.1 mil is a good reserve for your building without knowing what repairs are thought likely soon. If you’re going to need a 1.5 mil facade and window job in a year, it might be a good idea. It does sounds fishy though. I don’t suppose you’re borrowing the 800k from a bank that one of the board works for? :wink:

Interesting about Chicago. But, like I said, I’ve NEVER seen it here.

In answer to your question, no, we won’t need any major renovations soon, other than the repointing of the brick, which is already underway. They say they want to rehab the elevators in 2 to 3 years, but I can’t see why - they seem fine to me. And no, I don’t think anyone on the Board works for a bank.

And in answer to aahala, yeah, they got the answers, but they ain’t talkin. You can only press these people so much in public. Thus, this thread. Any insight would be appreciated. (I think they just want to be able to control the money!)

Per your statement below could you elaborate on what “maintenance” is in your OP? I’m familiar with commercial income properties (but not city apartments specifically) and your use of the term isn’t quite corresponding with what I usually think of “maintenance”, nor do I understand why you think your maintenance costs should be static or decreasing, or why they are related to the interest rate you are paying. Just as an FYI maintenance costs for commercial properties (on average) have increased appreciably in the last year or so.

OK, I’m a New York real estate lawyer (but I’m not yours, and this is just general discussion and not legal advice – if you want legal advice, hire a lawyer to advise you on your particular situation) and a co-op board member of my Upper West Side co-op.

When a buyer is considering a co-op, the amount of reserves is an important consideration in evaluating the building’s financial statements. Although building financials are not listed in advertisements for apartments, they should be evaluated by a buyer and his or her lawyer prior to entering into any contract to purchase an apartment. I expect that you and your lawyer did this prior to your purchase. And brokers will have a good idea of which buildings have strong financials and which have weak financials.

A common guideline is that a building should have three to six months of maintenance in its reserve accounts. That is to say, if you take the total annual maintenance collected by the building, the reserve account (after expected short-term improvements) should optimally be at least between half and a quarter of that amount.

When refinancing a co-op mortgage, it is common to take out additional cash for building projects and reserves. When my building did it last year, we did. I don’t know what the total annual maintenance for your building is, but a reserve of $1.8 million (after expected $300K on the repointing) doesn’t sound too out of line for a 214 unit building. Further if they expect to do an elevator rehab in the next several years, it makes lots of sense to have cash on hand for that from this refinancing. We are just finishing an elevator rehab on the single passenger elevator in our 18-story building that is costing nearly $200,000. If you have several elevator cars, it could cost on the order of a half million.

With the increased revenue from the garage, your building may also be facing an 80/20 problem. Under the tax law, to qualify for co-op tax treatment, at least 80% of the building’s income must come from unit owners. If it falls below that, there could be serious tax problems. By keeping maintenance high through increasing building services and reserves, they could be assuring that the revenue from the unit owners does not fall below the 80% threshhold.

Further, increases in heating and insurance (along with property taxes, electric, and most other aspects of building operations) are the case across the board this year, and a 2% overall increase this year doesn’t sound too bad. We are considering a much larger increase.

All in all, it doesn’t sound too out of line to me, though I understand how a shareholder who doesn’t know the details could be concerned.

astro, in a New York co-op apartment, “maintenance” is the term for the charges paid by the unit owners. Typically, it will cover not only the costs of building operations (what you’re thinking of as “maintenance”) but also the real estate taxes, capital improvements, and the interest and principal payments for the underlying mortgage on the building as a whole.

B]Billdo** (when I say that name, I think of LOTR - was that the intention?) thanks for the info. I am also a NY lawyer - PI - and I appreciate the legal disclaimer. I concur that this is just a general discussion and not legal advice. We can even consider the situation hypothetical. I would have it no other way.

Yes, me and my lawyer (my wife! who does wills, trusts, and estates, and therefore has experience on the seller’s end in closings) did consider the building’s reserves when we bought about 2 1/2 years ago. They were also at about $1.1 million then, and the independent advice we got at that time added up to: “That’s a great amount - that building is in really good shape.”

Well, I’m not sure quite how that works out, but if I do some back of the envelope math, I would guesstimate that they collect about $2.6 million per year. So it seems to me that they would have about 10 months worth now, about 8 months worth after the repointing, and exactly 6 months worth after the elevators are done. So I guess you’re right!

You live in an 18-story building and only have one elevator? :confused: What happens if it breaks down? Man, that’s a tough climb!

We have two passenger elevators and a freight elevator, so I guess you’re right, the rehab of the elevators will eat a big chunk of the amount they took out when they refinanced. I had no idea it was that expensive! They also will be expanding the roof deck a bit, and doing some boiler work (things I neglected to include in my OP), so there ya go.

Interesting; I didn’t know that. However, they said that we are losing some sort of real estate tax abatement regardless within the next year or so.

Well. thanks for filling me in on those details, especially the “amount a building should have in reserves” info. They were not at all forthcoming with that, and that was more of the original intent of the post, through all my ranting and raving. Thanks again.

Actually, it was a wise-ass name that my college fraternity brothers generously bestowed upon me. I used it without thinking when I signed up.

If you have three elevators, my estimate on rehab costs was probably high, but if you have roof and boiler issues, that can absorb a lot of reserves pretty darn quick. Also, it makes a lot of sense to increase the reserve while interest rates are cheap, because you’re probably prohibited from refinancing for at least five years under the mortgage agreement. (Though residential mortgages cannot legally prohibit prepayment, commercial can.)

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You live in an 18-story building and only have one elevator? :confused: What happens if it breaks down? Man, that’s a tough climb!
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We have a passenger and a service elevator, but we only redid the passenger elevator. It would have been too expensive to convert the manual elevator to automatic passenger service. When the passenger elevator is out, we have one of the building staff operate the service elevator.

My pleasure. I hope to meet you at one of the New York get-togethers we have from time to time.

billdo, your information is very enlightening. thanks to you and jgroub for this line of answers and questions.