And not when they first heard about how Germany was treating the Jews?
The United States didn’t have the same role in the world as it does today. Would the general population support sending American boys to die overseas in the absence of any direct action against the United States? Keeping in mind that many people still remembered the Great War I doubt it.
Though there were plenty who fervently believed that it was inevitable that the United States would enter the war. WW II was not fought because of the Holocaust. The Holocaust may give us a horrid example of the type of people the Allies were fighting against. But it certainly wasn’t the cause.
Marc
Question-HOW common was the knowledge about the Holocaust outside of Germany-and was it taken seriously, or dismissed as mere rumor?
Good question. I have heard IIRC Mayor Ed Koch blame FDR on this point.
Most unfair.
FDR would have been in WW2 much sooner, except for the fact that he was held back by a fairly large body of Congressmen & Senators, mostly from the Midwest.
Lacking a seacoast, & therefore not having direct contact with the world beyond the US, they tended towards isolationism & a myopia towards foreign affairs. Hell, the men who hold their seats today tend towards the same failings.
There was also strong anti-semitism in the Midwest during this era. The same faction that held FDR back also blocked immigration of Jews fleeing the Holocaust. They just believed that the rest of the world would just pass us by if we minded our own business. :rolleyes:
It was after Pearl Harbor (January 20, 1942), that fifteen high-ranking Nazi party and German Government Leaders met at the Wannsee Conference to arrive at “the final solution to the Jewish question in Europe." Now, there were already roving SS killing squads murdering Jews in the occupied parts of the Soviet Union. But the Wannsee Conference was the place where the “final solution” was formally revealed to non-Nazi leaders who would help arrange for Jews to be transported from all over German-occupied Europe to SS-operated “extermination” camps in Poland. This is the first time a modern state committed itself to the murder of an entire people.
The Nazi’s were horrible to the Jews from the start and from the 1935 Nuremburg Race Laws until the 1939 establishment of the Ghettos I think it could be argued Western Europe hadn’t seen the like in the 20th Century. It was hideous and barbaric, DEFINITELY crimes against humanity, but pre-1942 was it so barbaric & extraordinary in a horrible, evil world that the U.S. should declare a war (based on what they knew?) that would kill 100’s of thousands. I’d say no.
Re Guinastasia’spoint in this thread we discussed when the Allies know about the Holocaust. I think the general agreement was 1942-ish, again after Pearl Harbor.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=104913
Because we were attacked. We declared war on Japan on December 8th, 1941. Since Japan was allied with Germany, Germany declared war on the U.S.
As stated, WWII was not about the Jews. WWII was about taking territory. Hitler was trying to gobble up Europe and Japan was trying to take over the Pacific. IIRC, Germans thought this was a good thing because of the severe conditions imposed upon them after the Treaty of Versailles. It’s been said that that treaty was not about peace, but about punishment.
Japan had its own territorial ambitions. Again IIRC, the U.S. was angry with Japan for its human rights violations in China. (Interestingly, I read once that Americans at large did not know much about the Sino-Japanese war and many backed the Japanese. There was a lot of racism in the late 19th Century toward the Chinese immigrants, and I suspect that that’s why some Americans favoured the Japanese.) Since Japan would not pull out of China, the U.S. embargoed petroleum and raw materials. The Japanese could get raw materials by expanding their sphere of influence, but they couldn’t do that as long as the U.S. stood in the way. They felt they had no choice but to deliver a blow against the U.S. They seem to have thought that if they destroyed Pearl Harbor, then the U.S. would be frightened out of the area or subdued so as to not interfere with their goals. But with few exceptions they did not understand the American character.
Meanwhile, back in Europe…
The U.S. and England have always had a “special relationship”. England was under attack and America wouldn’t stand for it – as long as we didn’t go to war. Since FDR could not join in the war against Germany, he did the next best thing: He supplied the English with arms, food, and other necessities of war under the Lend-Lease Act. As in China, there were already Americans fighting against what became the Axis. In China the Flying Tigers may have been motivated more by money (the pilots were mercenaries who collected $300 for each Japanese aircraft they shot down) than by love for the Chinese people; but certainly there were people there with more altruistic ideals. In Europe, Americans formed the Eagle Squadron of the RAF (which also had Polish and French squadrons) and many joined the Royal Canadian Air Force. So inspite of America’s isolationist stance, there were many who were ready and who did believe that we should fight in Europe.
So on the one hand, we declared war against Germany because they declared war on us. On the other, we went because of our ties with Free Europe.
And not when they first heard about how Germany was treating the Jews?
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Note: this question (it should be obvious) is facetious and is not aimed at any citizen of the UK who actually has a clue (or a clew) regarding history. NK is welcome to ponder it at length, then go get a history book and attempt to put timelines, actions, and motivations into perspective.
I thought England did declare war on Germany after Germany invaded Poland – they just didn’t attack. I think that was called “The Phoney War”.
“Phoney War” or “Sitzkrieg”.
There was some light skirmishing, and some air combat, but nothing serious until Germany was ready to move.
Mistreatment of one’s own people has rarely been seen as a justification of war. If so, we could ask:
Why didn’t the U.S. attack the Soviet Union in the 1920’s and 1930’s for its slaughter of millions of people?
Why didn’t the U.S. attack Iraq when it gassed hundreds of thousands of Kurds?
Why didn’t the U.S. attack the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia when it began systematically slaughtering everyone with an education?
Why didn’t the U.S. attack Idi Amin when that nutbar began torturing and even <i>eating</i> his own people?
Why didn’t the U.S. attack China for any number of gross human rights violations in this century?
Why didn’t the U.S. attack Japan before Peal Harbor, givin its brutal invasions and occupations in China and elsewhere?
The Holocaust was horrific, but it’s important to remember that there have been MANY holocausts. Most of which were not stopped by force, but ended when the populations attacked no longer existed or capitulated.
Why did the US not attack the Taliban until after 9/11, and not when we heard about their treatment of women?
Indeed:
Germany invaded Poland on Sept. 1, 1939. Britain and France declared war on Germany on Sept. 3. The first significant engagement between British and German forces were the Battles of Narvik, which began on Apr. 10, 1940.
America saw any major power with ambitions of world conquest as more of a real threat after the attack.
We finally felt what the countries in Europe felt when hit by the Nazis.
Well to answer the original question ,
simply because Hitler declared war on America.If he hadn’t done so it’s entirely possible America would just have fought Japan and ignored the European conflict. Fortunatly Hitler decided to declare war (against his advisors opinions).
As for the Phoney War Tranquilis is correct. After Germany invaded Poland both sides spent 6 months staring each other down across their borders lines while they prepared their armies.
Regarding attitudes in the UK, it’s worth reading Guilty Men by ‘Cato’ (Victor Gollancz, 1940; reprinted Penguin 1998). A classic piece of polemic, actually written by Michael Foot (yes, the same), Peter Howard and Frank Owen immediately after Dunkirk, it’s an after-the-fact attack on appeasement, but also effectively a justification of “why we fight”. It mentions the Jews incidentally once or twice.
As for what was known when, the classic case study regarding death camps (concentration camps were an open secret from 1933) is indeed Gilbert’s Auschwitz and the Allies (Michael Joseph, 1981). Chapter 25 is called “The truth about Auschwitz reaches the west, June 1944.” This refers to the Allied leadership; my unexpert impression is that the troops liberating the camps through the next year were completely unprepared for what they were to find.