the oracle told neo he wasn’t the one. she then said, oh well, maybe in your next life.
so neo had to die before he could be the one.
Yeah, the Sleeping Beauty kiss was a bit corny, but I didn’t have a big problem with it.
The only reason dying in the Matrix kills in the real world is that the Matrix reality is so believable your accepts the death and shuts down. Neo is supposed to have such a steely mind that he can overcome his perceptions. All the kiss and speech did was give him something to latch onto and remind himself that the Matrix was not reality and just because he had died in there he didn’t need to die out here. Once he grokked that he would be completely fine and could reenter his Matrix-body with no harm.
So my feeling about the whole death-resurrection thing was that Neo had finally completely accepted the idea that NONE of it was real. That is when he proved himself to be the one.
the oracle told neo he wasn’t the one. she then said, oh well, maybe in your next life.
so neo had to die before he could be the one.
Funfact: Jesus Christ was dead for three days until he was resurrected. Three days = SEVENTY-TWO hours. If you time from the moment that one of the agents confirms Neo’s death to the time Trinity kisses Neo, it turns out that that whole nugget of time roughly equals (duhduhduh DUH!) SEVENTY-TWO seconds.
Yup, symbolistic to the last drop.
For those who have formulated their own explanations for the shortcomings of the movie, I quote from The Jabootu Glossary:
[quote]
Alex’s Rule of Excessive Exposition (phrase): Show me a man that needs every little detail explicitly explained and I will show you a kindergarten teacher who regrets letting that man pass.
SouthernStyle first warns:
:: spoiler alert ::
Then…
"*The only part of the movie that caused me a problem is the ending. I mean, how corny is it that she kisses his dead body, tells the corpse that she loves him, sheds a few tears, and voila! he comes back to life?.. The only plausible scientific explanation is that they are still in the matrix :eek: – and unless that’s the premise for a sequel it’s a pretty crappy solution. * 
"
To me, it meant:
- That love breaks all barriers, including death, and
- He is The One. He can transcend death.
Be warned: The Matrix is one of my all-time favorite movies. It may not always make sense, but damn, it’s so frickin’ cool.
I don’t have much use for kick-boxing.
The latest Bond and the upcoming Charlie’s Angels look like jokes. What good is a movie about a struggle when the “dance numbers” look like they were designed for Fred Astaire?
A: Keanu-I-can’t-act-to-save-my-fcking-life-Reeves.
B: Muddled, poorly paced plot.
C: Groan- worthy dialogue.
D: The hype, the hype, the hype.
E: The fact that now every movie, comercial and video game is obligated by law to have some ludicrous frozen in mid air while the camera swings around shot.
F: Keanu-I-can’t-act-to-save-my-fcking-life-Reeves.
The special effects of the Matrix were ground breaking. At least the bullit time thingy. They did beat out Star Wars for the special effects Oscar. I thought bullit time was pretty cool and I’m sure they’ll use it more effectively in the future.
Marc
No! That’s actually completely a myth!
The Bullet-Time effect was at least three or four years old before Matrix even went into pre-production! All they did was take existing effects, and… use them! They didn’t even improve on them, they just took them as-existing!
This is the complete opposite of groundbreaking, it is in fact unimaginative - and worst of all some of the shots are done really badly! Because they used greenscreen, and slight motion of the actors during the effect, it made the whole thing pretty pointless - the image wasn’t a true frozen point in time! They may as well have created CGI stunt actors in a CGI room for all the use bullet-time did them.
The CG is pretty crappy in some areas too, most notably the squid octopus things.
(If you listen to the extremely boring commentary on the DVD, you’ll hear the effects guy drone on about it. The guy clearly has no imagination whatsoever)
I can’t really give you an informed opinion because I haven’t seen it. The reason I haven’t seen it - Keanu Reeves.
1.) I liked The Matrix, myself. It’s hard to find good science fiction. When you consider all that has to go into making a good SF movie, especially all that has to go into convincing the Powers That Be to make one in the first place, then to persuading them to Keep Their Hands Off It (instead of dumbing it down), you can appreciate why there are so few sf movies.
2.) Although there are many good comments here (and elsewhere on the Board) on the Matrix, a lot of the commentary seems shallow. Condemning the movie because of one aspect (ie-- the “Hman Battery” thing) or because you don’t like Keanu Reeves doesn’t seem substantive. MOST movies have some element that doesn’t work, or doesn’t fit. Because of the difficulties in getting a good SF movie made, I’m willing to cut them more slack.
3.) I agree that the “Love Conquers All” ending annoyed me. I’ve aklways hated that sort of thing, especially in sf films. The Evil Warlord is about to kill off the hero, when Love changes his heart – bleah. That’s one reason I loved “THe Terminator” They pretty clearly said at the start that there wouldn’t be any of that sort of nonsense, and they stuck to it. A coldly logical film. They succimbed to the temptation somewhat in “Terminator II”, but they still kept things from being cloying. “The Matrix” had been pretty consistent up to that point.
4.) The middle is BORING? I loved the way they set it up, and followed through.
5.) They did ask questions about reality and existence, and set it up in a VERY interesting way. Zen Koan-like statements become intelligible within the logical framework of the story. Even after they explain all, the plot isn’t obvious. They do genuinely intriguing things with the concept. If you want to see something similar done not as well, watch “Dark City”. The parallels are pretty startling, right down to the Hero who is the Chosen One who can beat the extra-human villains who control Reality at their own game.
6.) No one seems to have picked up on this, but the idea of computers using banks og human in capsules was used in the very first issue of “Magnus, Robot Fighter”, a 1960s Gold Key comic. In fact, it was on the cover. I suspect that the film makers were fans.
Personally, I thought that they whole movie would have been better with the sound turned off. The dialogue was that bad.
One aspect? Lets see:
- Stupid Human as batteries idea (Haven’t the computers heard of nuclear power? Bad Science Fiction ideas really sticks in my craw.
- Stupid Humans destroy the world idea by blotting out the sun. Why? No sun = no food. The computers ran on solar power? Another pipe dream. (and there is no sun so where do they get the food to feed the people-batteries? From Dead people as the movie posits? Do the math.)
- Stupid Chosen one motif (The whole movie would have worked fine without that).
- Bad dialogue. (“You must feel like Alice after falling down the rabbit hole . . .”) which brings me to:
- Over simplification of the references/imagery/themes. (okay, the Alice in Wonderland thing was good, following the “white rabbit,” and all, but who didn’t understand that? Why did Larry Fishburn have to explain to us [yes, the audience] that he was referencing Alice in Wonderland? If you didn’t understand the refenence, you don’t deserve to have it explained to you.)
- When in the Matrix, they are part of a large, intelligent computer program. Why is it that the “Matrix” can’t find them immediately, as they are part of its mind?! It can’t find them until they use the phone? Blah!
I could go on and on. And I kind of liked the movie visually. “Dark City” and “The Truman Show” were better uses of the movie’s themes. Also please read Harlan Ellison’s “I have no mouth and I must scream” for a better reason for AI computers to hold Humans prisoner. Funny that CalMeacham should have mentioned “The Terminator,” as it was also plagairized from Harlan Ellison’s work.
The reasons that the parallels are so strong between this and “Dark City” are that it is such a simplistic idea. Anybody who believes that this movie wasn’t “dumbed down” is dreaming. I just think that it was dumbed down by the writers.
All in all, I’d have to say that it was 100 times better than “Independence Day.”
Hi Baglady,
As I said, I like the film. In fact, I still watch it on an all-too regular basis. (Talk about sick – we even downloaded a copy from the net and would watch it at work.)
But I’ve got to agree with CalMeacham about the “love conquers all” thing really taking away from good sci-fi.
I mean, even the original Star Trek series was bad sci-fi and was intended to be corny. But it generally minimized any type of “love conquers all” kinds of corniness.
Why didn’t I like the Matrix, well, where to start . . .
- I’m an anime fan, and a HK movie fan. Therefore I noticed that every memomorable scene in the movie was a direct rip-off of a scene from one or the other. I’m not talking “Oh, he stopped those bullets in mid-air, like Tetso in Akira, neat!” I’m talking “Hmm, jumping back from rooftop to rooftop, using the exact same camera angle and speed as in Demon City; Oh, and his coat is blowing off to the side, just like it, too. Ya know, in live action, you notice that it’s blowing in the wrong way, considering how he’s moving . . .”
A little “insparation” is one thing, but we’ve gone far beyond what’s acceptable here.
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Managed to combine the worst features of both american action movies (Bad script, by-the-numbers cast, bad science) and anime (middle of the movie expository info dump, pretentous, Macross 2-style touchy feely ending)
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Casting by-the-numbers. I mean come on. We start out with a designated hero, his girlfriend, his teacher, a fairly butch woman, a black guy, an “other” minority, and a short, ugly white guy. Who’s going to live, who’s going to die, who’s going to betray them? Fill out your booklets now, we’ll be collecting them at the end of the film.
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What the hell was the deal with Carrie Ann Moss? In the begining of the movie she was compitant and tough. Ten minutes later, she’s head cheerleader. Did someone point out to the writer that she was a woman?
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“Well-developed and thought provoking?” Did we see the same movie? A fairly interesting, though not all that clever central conciet, (Is there ANYONE who didn’t think that once or twice growing up?) but so poorly thought out, both on the technical (It runs on protoculture? Why didn’t they just unplug people who were causing problems? etc . . .) and philosophical grounds that it might as well not have been there at all.
The Truman Show did it better, and first. So did Jacob’s Ladder.
- General stupidity. Ten minutes in, Moss is dodging bullets, jumping over buildings, running around at what looks like 40 miles an hour . . . And the villain tries to RAM HER WITH A TRUCK? (I’d also point out that she killed several innocent people who she could have easily avoided or incapacitated, but I won’t) Funny that both Neo and Trinity (or whatever the hell their names were) have the same very incorrect, and very very strange idea of what “Deja Vu” means. Are there no editors in the future?
The net runs on protoculture? What about geothermal, or neuclear power?
Ditto with the very obvious and poorly done “christ” metaphor, (remenicent of Future War. There’s something to aspire to) And don’t get me started on the “Oracle.” EVERY “vertigo” era comic and horror/goth move at some point has a mythical architype show up in an “unexpected” place. It’s downright insulting that the writers thought we’d be surprised with this. Why do oracles always live in crappy, overcroweded urban apartments? Why not, say, a nice split level in the suburbs? The Greek oracles were pampered, if not perticularly well educated, priestesses.
They needed a place to include that “child psychic’s” bit they ripped off from Akira. That’s why.
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the “Great” fight coreagraphy was utterly mediocre. Pity, as Woo-ping Yuen (who did the choreography for Wing Chun) is a VERY talented man. Maybe he needs actual martial artists to do well, though.
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Ah, I see. Computer hackers are tall, slender goths, with considerably below average intellegence, $500 haircuts and chiseled abs, who spend most of their time going to parties with leather and spandex wearing blondes with tattoos. I had the wrong idea all this time.
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The biggest problem is that it’s just SO DAMN OVERRATED. For the next ten years, any movie with any anime/HK influence is going to be called a “matrix rip-off”
I had the same problem with 5th Element. On it’s own, it would have just been a stupid movie. But after hearing everyone tell me how great and “cough” imaginative it was (does no one read Heavy Metal anymore?) I’ve grown to hate it.
There were some parts that worked fairly well. The “jacking in” bits were cool, (I’m a long-time cyberpunk fan) some of the special effects were done well. (The helecopter crashing bit, etc . . .) but that hardly justifies sitting through the rest of it.
You want more, I can provide. I’m just getting started, here. As you may have gathered, I REALLY hated that movie.
“Jesus was a kick-boxer, wasn’t he?”
<hijack>
Future War is one of my favorite bad science fiction movies! A couple of weeks ago a bunch of my friends and I had a Future War party. . .we all wore plaid flannel. We’d have decorated the room with cardboard boxes if we’d been able to find some. 
</hijack>
Special Lucky Bonus! Maru-kun’s magic lecture!
Today’s topic, how to turn the Matrix into a good (or at least tolerable) movie, in 13 easy steps.
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Get rid of Reeves. Get someone we can buy as reasonably intelegent, even brilliant.
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Ditch the “chosen one” bit. The rebels seek out Neo becuase of his amazing hacking and encryption ablities, not because he’s God.
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Neo’s “bending reality” ability is just his knowlage of the way computers work. He can judge what the bad guys will do, estimate their limits, and even alter reality, given time (and a keyboard in real life) He enjoys the video-game/comic book aspects of the matrix, as he’s a bit of a geek.
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Moss gets most of the fight scenes. She’s the “action hero” soldier type, Neo’s a techie. She resents the attention Morphius (whom she has a bit of a father complex with) gives Neo, who’s not taking this seriously.
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The men in black are low level security routines. Ther’re a bit stronger and faster than any human, but they can’t actually change anything. They have to keep a fairly low profile. Have them all played by the same actor, that guy who played the villian. Both the good guys and bad guys are more or less subject to the laws of physics while online. Killing someone just pops them out of net with a nasty shock, that can cause a heart attack, but is otherwise not fatal.
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A high level security routine can alter reality in major ways, can trace the rebels back to where they’re hiding, and keep them from jaking out. But they take a short time period (three minutes, say) to show up after a lower level routine summons them. Move the emphasis on stealth, and keeping missions short enough to get out before they show up. (Ever since Technoman, I’ve been a fan of time limits)
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No protoculture. The machines are programmed to help mankind, they’re keeping them in VR because the real world is so fucked up. (And make it really fucked up, a Voice of the Whirlwind style mess of radiation, genetially engeneered plauges, and other unpleasantness) The Great War was between various human groups, not us vs them.
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The head bad guy is a human, one of the heroes of the great war. He thinks humans are better off in VR until the robots finish cleaning up the planet, which will take centuries, and might not work. Make him someone who can be threatening and charismatic at once, like Chow Yun Fat or Rutger Hauer, circa 1985. There are other human sysops too, but he’s responsible for the area the movie takes place in. He’s ancient in real life, but his matrix self is in his late 40s. Make the big question of the movie not “what if we’re living in Plato’s Cave,” but “Is a pleasant illusion better than an intolerable reality.”
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Moss was supposed to be his succsessor. He was her old father figure, before Morphious recruited her.
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After morphious is caputred, make his interogation seriously bad. The rest of the team does a real life raid to hold off the high-level security while Trinity and Neo try to get him. Neo gets destracted by something, Trinity fights the villian in a really cool sequence, with anime-esque philisophical arguments and “I am your father” loyalty questions. She looses.
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Neo finally shows up, fights villan. Real high-end Musami O’bari style fight, intercut with real-life Neo and the villan hacking madly to change their own ablities and the area they’re fighting in. Eventally, Neo wins, kills villans vurtual self, his RL self dies, either by having his life support shut of, or heart attack.
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Morpious is rescued, but badly hurt. Moss respects Neo now, but dosn’t pull the fainting princess yet. (she might fall in love in the sequel) The rest of the team took serious losses, but enough are still alive to let sequels work.
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Get a decent soundtrack. Is that guy who did the Eat Man '98 soundtrack available?
And keep in mind, this is a first draft written in 10 minutes, while extremely hungry.
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“More TERROR! From the year 5000!”
Heh. You proalby already know this, but you might want to seek out the MST3K version, if you haven’t seen it already.
They were a bit mean, even for them.
–
“I really do love boxes. Just call me Bruce Box-liker.”
Ura, you call yourself an HK movie fan? “Woo Ping Yuen,” what the shit is that? All ribbing aside, I don’t think it was his fault; it was the fact that the Wachowskis tried to pull off long-take fight scenes without the martial artistry to back them up. Sure, they all look pretty good for a bunch of hastily-trained American (and Australian) actors, but considering you can routinely see three or four moves more impressive than almost ANYTHING in The Matrix in one take in many HK movies, it really looked pretty sad in comparison. They could’ve compensated for the actors’ lack of talent by mixing in “real” choreography with more closeups and “high-impact” shooting techniques, but instead it came off like a wushu demo by a bunch of mid-level students.
As for the brothers’ acknowledged debt to John Woo… Everyone may be stealing his mannerisms, but nobody is his equal. Watched the hallway shootout and compared it to the end of The Killer last night… Pretty pathetic that Matrix’s best action scene lasted 1/3 as long and captured about 1/10 the intensity on what was probably at least 15-20 times the budget.