In Moria, how come Gandalf didn’t use his magic? Especially in Durin’s Tomb? His “force throw” would’ve come in handy vs the orcs and especially cave troll. So would a few zaps of lightning or something.
Why didn’t he help out the fellowship more with his magic? After all, he was a wizard.
Using magic is work. Work gets tiring. Gandalf fully expects to run into the Balrog down there, and siince he can whoop orc-arse easily enough with a sword, why waste his magic strength?
The book answer: He was restricted from unveiling his true might, except in the direst need, by the Lords of the West
The Movie Answer: That force thingy only works on other wizards.
And for the most part, his magic was showy stuff, not really powerful like in role playing games. In the movie Gandalf and Saruman had a telekenetic shoving match, but in the books the most spectacular thing any of the Ainur do is when Gandalf breaks the bridge in Moria. When Morgoth, the most powerful critter ever created, battles Fingolfin, he uses no magic other than his hammer. When Morgoth battles Ungoliant (a super giant spider and ancestor of Shelob), he basically loses and is captured. Only when his balrogs come to his aid is his captor overpowered. Frankly, when teh river at Rivendell rises up to drown the horses of the Nazgul, that Elven magic (different people in books and movies do it) is more powerful than Gandalf’s shown magic.
From The Encyclopedia of Arda:
*Tolkien at no point defines what the limits of Gandalf’s magic were. As a Maia, he had many natural abilities that would seem magical to mortal races, but he also had a great store of knowledge of more ‘mechanical’ magic, worked through spells and incantations, and especially through the agency of his staff. It is clear that he had far greater power, especially after his return as Gandalf the White, than he ever displayed in Middle-earth.
His magical powers seem to be particularly associated with fire, a fact that is perhaps related to the Ring of Fire, Narya, that he bore.*
Just remember Fingolfin that The Encyclopedia of Arda, while a wonderful work, is very, very incomplete. Several essays (some of them mutually contradictory) on the topic of the powers of the Ainur may be found in The HOMES volumes I-XII, but will not be referenced by the Encyclopedia.
Magic doesn’t really exist in Rings as it’s classically seen in other places. The Balrog clash is kind of like a battle of auras. The Balrog’s having been corrupted a long time ago.
In a way, this is like asking why, if Jesus was the Son of God, He didn’t just smite all them Romans and Pharisees and such.
Tolkien was a practicing Catholic, and Middle-Earth is set up as a Universe where God is in charge, doing most of His work through angels He’s set in charge over this-n-that. He is (though not overtly said to be so outside letters) the Judeo-Christian deity operating well before the Abraham, Moses, and Jesus events.
As an angel (Maia) deriving his powers from God, Gandalf is restricted in their use to where God’s will calls for their use. Ergo, any such question as this leads back to “What was God’s will in this case?” and to the old “mysterious ways” question that has so exercised people over in Great Debates.
Sorry for injecting theology here in Cafe Society, but it’s not commonly recognized that Tolkien intentionally operated within a scheme intended to be coherent with Catholic doctrine (does invoking Elbereth Queen of Heaven in time of need sound at all familiar to anybody?).
Or to take it a step further, it’s like asking why God Himself didn’t step down. Hell, the combined might of the Valinor should have been enough to lay the smackdown on Sauron. Or, for that matter, what about the other Istari–there were five sent to Middle Earth, one was turned to evil . . . that leaves Radagast and two others. Why didn’t they get involved?
The answer, to me, is simple. Deux ex machina (or perhaps magica ex machina) is cheap. A victory over evil is meaningless if there is no investment by good. Had the Valinor decided to simply eliminate Sauron, the Free People would never have united, Elessar would never have become king, and Middle Earth would have become a mire of small evils, corruption and anarchy.
Or, back to the Christianity, what does it profit a man, an elf, a dwarf, a hobbit, or an ent, to win the war but lose his soul?
Y’all are forgetting that, in the book, IIRC, he did use magic in Moria. He put a spell on the door of Balin’s tomb to lock it but his spell was challenged by the Balrog. The resulting magical confrontation caused the entire chamber to collapse. It also, IIRC, completely exhausted him.
The letters? Heck, you don’t even need to go to the Silmarillion. In one of the appendices to LotR, He’s referred to as “the One”. Now, tell me, how many "the One"s are there? If the God of Abraham is the One, and Eru Illuvitar is the One, then it necessarily follows that Eru Illuvitar is the God of Abraham.
In other words, he’d need a warrant? And if it’s Wednesday God’s playing golf so Gandalf would have to schlepp out to the country club and find God and get him to sign it and by the time he got back the Fellowship would be Balrog Bites? It sucks working within the system, but your explanation helps explain why the LOTR cartoon tapes were in a video catalog my church library got.
I can’t do that anymore now that I’m a Lutheran. I don’t normally call Her “Elbereth,” but She has had many names since long before the whole Judeo-Christian thing came along.
Specific to the Mines of Moria, there is one point before they enter where Gandalf states that he has been reluctant to use any magic, because it essentially sets a giant neon sign pointed at his location for anyone who knows what to look for (read: Sauron, Saruman, etc.). The Fellowship was trying to keep a low profile, so Gandalf couldn’t use his magic without giving them away.
I would also point out that Gandalf battled the Ringwraiths on that mountain top a few days before Aragorn and the hobbits arrived. Given that the heroes saw lights and fires from some distance away and later found evidence of fires, I think we can assume Gandalf threw a few lightning bolts and fireballs.
It has always struck me that Gandalf relied more on wise counsel of others than on sheer power.
some spoilers for those only familiar with the movie
Magic was often rather subtle in LOTR. Also, there can be a sort of disasociation between magic and, for want of a better word, will. Thus, Denethor’s battle of the wills with Gandalf, Aragorns battle of wills with the Mouth of Sauron could be somewhat considered ‘magic’. As could Aragorn’s ability to heal be considered magic, yet was not supposed to be, see below.
As for overt magic, Gandalf lit the fire on the mountain, a light in Moria, Broke the bridge of Khazad-dum, caused the trees to burst into flame against the wolves, shut the door in Moria, caused Gimli’s axe to fly out of his hand when they remet in Fangorn, called Shadowfax from a distance mentally, fought the Dark Lord when Frodo put on the ring at Amon Hen in order to distract him, Healed Theoden, Did the Light show in Meduseld, zapped Grima, Broke Sauruman’s staff (The call and dismissal would be will I think, not magic exactly.) Drove away the Nazgul as they attacked Faramir’s party (A bolt of light flew from his hands at the Nazgul), I think that is all, but I might be missing a few. If you look, most of these are subtle and kind of behind the scenes. Even Galadrials magic was subtle in implimentation.
As I recall, magic was an area Tolkien was never fully satisfied with, Men (And Halflings) were not supposed to have it normally, but several men do things that could be considered magic. Sourcery was supposed to be different as well. So it is all a bit of a missmash, like this post.
Although it wasn’t magic, he did have power over (or against) the Nazgul - shown when he denied entry to the Head Nazgul (don’t know his official title) with merely a word, though the thing did challenge him, it left.
Anyone with a copy of Unfinished Tales handy is requested to post the quotation from the Essay on the Istari that is pertinent to my point – it was not that Gandalf had to “go get the One’s okay” but that his powers were restricted to exactly what the One’s Will encompassed at the moment – he was not to defeat Sauron by power but by coordinating and strengthening the free will of the Free Peoples of the West to combat him.
Well, I can’t pass that up, Polycarp, since I just got my own copy of Unfinished Tales from Amazon two days ago. Towards the beginning of the essay on the Istari (halfway down page 406 in the Del Rey paperback edition), we have this:
Earlier in the same paragraph, it says that the Valar asked Eru personally for permission to intervene, with the condition that the emmissaries be clad in bodies as of Men.