Why didn't Jesus write anything down?

[Musicat]

@DrDeth

Salm is not a “scholar”.

Dr Ken Dark is a scholar. Nor does he beleive in magic fairies.

But fairies or no, unless you can get a legit academic press or journal to peer review and print your article, you’re just a author. Degrees, academic qualifcations and honours also mean a lot, but are not required.

It does appear that you are attacking the person, not the scholarship. Is Salm’s work suspect for any other reason than you don’t like the publisher?

[DrDeth]

@Musicat

It does appear that you are attacking the person, not the scholarship. Is Salm’s work suspect for any other reason than you don’t like the publisher?

The book was extensively reviewed and debunked by Dr Ken Dark , who is a noted scholar. Salm has no academic qualifications at all.
And of course, it’s not just that I don’t "like’ the publisher, the publisher is not known for academic publications, it’s known for (oddly) athiest publications.

[smiling_bandit]

I may have missed it, and I know the debate moved on, but isn’t a better explanation simply tyhat he didn’t write anything down, not that the couldn’t? According to what we have, Jesus was able to read in the Temple, and though he could have worked from memory, literacy was hardly uncommon among Jews, even lower-class ones. Especially given that a very large proportion of their population was expected to be able to to read and discuss the Torah/Talmud.

That doesn’t mean he wrote anything. Most people who could read wrote nothing of significance and nothing which survived.

[Malthus]

I know nothing about the archaeology of Nazareth, but the guy in Dio’s link sure comes across as a one-issue enthusiast - that is, a crank.

[Malthus]

@smiling_bandit

I may have missed it, and I know the debate moved on, but isn’t a better explanation simply tyhat he didn’t write anything down, not that the couldn’t? According to what we have, Jesus was able to read in the Temple, and though he could have worked from memory, literacy was hardly uncommon among Jews, even lower-class ones. Especially given that a very large proportion of their population was expected to be able to to read and discuss the Torah/Talmud.

That doesn’t mean he wrote anything. Most people who could read wrote nothing of significance and nothing which survived.

I made the point above (which got lost in the shuffle) that Jesus (assuming of course a historical Jesus existed) had a rather short and event-filled ministry/life; moreover, he was apparently convinced he lived in the end times - neither are conducive to a written legacy, even assuming he was literate.

[Beware_of_Doug]

@Czarcasm

The person that wrote that passage never saw Jesus do anything, and if someone did witness Jesus scribble something in the dirt than erase it, we have no idea whether it was anything literate or not-he could have been drawing a picture of a house in the sand.

Or sketching Mary Magdalene’s bodacious badonkadonk. Which would have given him good reason to shmeer it out before anyone got a good look. Can’t be too careful when you’re a religious leader, ya know.

[gonzomax]

If Jesus existed and is the son of god, he could have had his thought written in diamonds on a granite surface 70 feet high and had a sun hover over it to provide divine light. But apparently he thought keeping everyone in suspense for a couple centuries was a better plan.

[Musicat]

@gonzomax

If Jesus existed and is the son of god, he could have had his thought written in diamonds on a granite surface 70 feet high and had a sun hover over it to provide divine light. But apparently he thought keeping everyone in suspense for a couple centuries was a better plan.

God works in mysterious ways, My Son. Who are you to fathom the mind of God?

Just in case…

[DrDeth]

@smiling_bandit

I may have missed it, and I know the debate moved on, but isn’t a better explanation simply tyhat he didn’t write anything down, not that the couldn’t? According to what we have, Jesus was able to read in the Temple, and though he could have worked from memory, literacy was hardly uncommon among Jews, even lower-class ones. Especially given that a very large proportion of their population was expected to be able to to read and discuss the Torah/Talmud.

That doesn’t mean he wrote anything. Most people who could read wrote nothing of significance and nothing which survived.

You make a fair point. Really, even though it appears likely Jesus could read, he was hardly a scribe. It’s not impossible that Jesus was the author of the “Q- Document”, since those are widely held to be actual sayings of Jesus. However, I doubt if Jesus wrote much at all. Any sayings of Jesus were much more likely written down by others.

[DrDeth]

@Malthus

I know nothing about the archaeology of Nazareth, but the guy in Dio’s link sure comes across as a one-issue enthusiast - that is, a crank.

Right. However, it’s true that Nazareth was indeed a tiny village. Some estimates think as little as 1000 inhabitants. There’s not going to be major archealogical evidence in any case. The find by Yardenna Alexandre does not show otherwise. Dinky, rather unimportant town.

[trabajabamos]

Things have become quite heated over this tekton business-- a lot like the other thread it would seem. While I’m having a really hard time deciding whose cites are the most credible and who is arguing with what agenda, I do have to say that they all make interesting reading… so thanks.

[trabajabamos]

@Magiver

Did your parents write down stuff for you? Basic messages don’t require dictation.

No. But then again, my parents never made an effort to spread their “message” beyond my brother and I. I guess they figured with a captive audience for the better part of 20 years verbal repetition would be good enough.

[monavis]

@kanicbird

Yes, It is taken from scripture:
This would include all writings. As for what sect, it would be the sects that believe the scriptures.

One can prove things were in the scriptures, but not prove the Scriptures were the truth, any more that the Koran would be the truth. Both were the words of humans.

[monavis]

@Sage_Rat

Personally I’d vote that the word means “builder”.

Now in my profession, I’m a programmer. But the word “programmer” denotes anything from people who can write a little script that makes a word blink in HTML, to people who architect out multi-million dollar systems and know all of the details of dozens of technologies.

Architects of the Roman era seem to have included people who were fairly technically oriented. At the same time, I suspect that there were many who had no major technical skills, but weren’t expected to build much of note either. There were probably tektons who could take a chunk of wood or stone and fashion it into something impressive, while there were others who were entirely unskilled labor. I know that even in modern day, construction work is quite often something where you can pretty much grab any random person and set them to work, regardless of whether they’ve done it before.

But no matter how you cut it, it’s far more likely that Jesus was either a simple laborer or at most a craftsman. He wasn’t an architect nor an engineer, so his skills would have been unlikely to have rested in mathematics, and definitely not in the written word. That’s not to say that he couldn’t have picked them up nor studied them, just that it’s not apparent that he would require such abilities.

It’s also fairly incontestable that Jesus was held to be little more than a beggar and a tramp in his own time. This is how people in the Bible, who aren’t his followers, treat him and what they call him. When he proclaims himself King of the Jews, everyone points at him and laughs like this is the biggest joke ever.

He grew up in Nazareth, which was effectively a shanty town set up 3.7 miles outside of the city of Sepphoris to rebuild it (it had been destroyed by the Romans in 4BC). That’s an hour’s walk to work and back each day, for the tektons in Nazareth.

It’s also worth noting that Jesus’ father is quite probably a fiction. He never appears to any witnesses once Jesus is an adult. He was never spoken of in Mark or John, and both of these stories seem to have included him for the sake of finding a patrilineal heritage to David. If she’s unmarried and living in the middle of a shanty town of men transported in to rebuild a city, I think it’s a safe bet as to how she supported herself. If we assume, however, that Mary was happily married, that still leaves Joseph as a tekton, living in a shanty town 4 miles outside of Sepphoris. There’s unlikely to be ample opportunity for Jesus to have received much of an education.

I don’t believe that Jesus ever called himself king of the Jews,and even the Messiah, when one of his Apostles called him the Messiah, he is quoted as saying, Thou sayest it", that doesn’t mean he agreed. I have heard people in some circumstances that said to another “you said it”, and not agreeing. The NT writers did give him credit for being an educated person as they called him teacher. Some of the educated men were surprised at his knowledge when he spoke in the temple at age 12…if this really happened we cannot know for sure, as humans have the ability to exaggerate. any material that would have apposed this, or any idea of Jesus was destroyed by later followers.

[Musicat]

@monavis

I don’t believe that Jesus ever called himself king of the Jews,and even the Messiah, when one of his Apostles called him the Messiah, he is quoted as saying, Thou sayest it", that doesn’t mean he agreed. I have heard people in some circumstances that said to another “you said it”, and not agreeing. The NT writers did give him credit for being an educated person as they called him teacher. Some of the educated men were surprised at his knowledge when he spoke in the temple at age 12…if this really happened we cannot know for sure, as humans have the ability to exaggerate. any material that would have apposed this, or any idea of Jesus was destroyed by later followers.

ALL stories in the collection known as the New Testament should be considered as possible pious fabrications intended to support religious notions. It’s very likely that if “John” thought Jesus should have said this or that, he wrote it down that way. And many things in the book of John are found nowhere else.

Even if a saying or event is corroborated by inclusion in another chapter supposedly by a different author, all that proves is they copied each other, and we know they did a lot of that by how similar the works are.

[Sage_Rat]

@monavis

I don’t believe that Jesus ever called himself king of the Jews

Having done so is one of the things he was – according to the Bible – put on trial for.

Pilate: “Are you the King of the Jews?”

http://ebible.org/web/John.htm#C18V1

[raindog]

@Sage_Rat

Having done so is one of the things he was – according to the Bible – put on trial for.

Pilate: “Are you the King of the Jews?”

http://ebible.org/web/John.htm#C18V1

Pilate asked him, and Jesus didn’t answer directly. The texts do not indicate that Jesus had ever claimed to be the “King of the Jews.”

[raindog]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

I see. No scholarship is legitimate unless the scholar believes in magic fairies.

No, of course not.

It is quite ok to believe in their own subjective beliefs.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@raindog

Pilate asked him, and Jesus didn’t answer directly. The texts do not indicate that Jesus had ever claimed to be the “King of the Jews.”

The Synoptics have him claiming to be the Messiah, which is the same thing. Whether he really made that claim historically is a different question, but the Gospels do seem to say he claimed to be the Messiah.

[Sage_Rat]

@raindog

Pilate asked him, and Jesus didn’t answer directly. The texts do not indicate that Jesus had ever claimed to be the “King of the Jews.”

When does Jesus ever give a straight answer? He was arrested for having said it, put on trial, and proved to have done so. He never particularly denies it, he just waffles about his answer.

We may not have a time machine to verify anything for certain, but the Bible gives a good indication that this is at least one thing that he did to annoy the people of Jerusalem.