Why do Christians think Mary was a virgin?

It didn’t become fact. That is, a literal resurrection did not become fact. A mythological motif was overlayed onto a (probably) historical person, but that doesn’t make the resurrection historical fact. It was just a way to interpret his death.

Again, that’s making too much of too little, exaggerating the Osiris myth far beyond what archaeology supports. While some sources claim that Osiris was resurrected, others (the Encyclopedia Brittanica and German scholar Gunter Wagner , for example) state that Osiris was revived, but only in the sense that he was reassembled and then made lord of the underworld. This is vastly different from being resurrected unto glory as Jesus was.

As for the alleged existence of a eucharist in the Osiris myth, I note that you haven’t provided any source for your assertion. Indeed, I have yet to see anyone produce a credible source for that claim. I suppose that somebody could try to dredge up an account of Osiris sharing bread and wine with someone, but that would simply be a common meal – nothing unusual, and certainly nothing that amounts to a eucharistic celebration. Obviously, the mere breaking of common bread or sharing of wine would be pretty ordinary, and not remotely analogous to the sharing of one’s body and blood (either literally or symbolically).

Your explanation is a logical conclusion if you discount the possibility that the resurrection was a historical fact. Lewis was making a statement of faith, not a historical defense.

I am shocked—shocked!—that Diogenes disagrees with C. S. Lewis over whether the resurrection of Jesus actually happened.

Not really. That’s the special pleading I was referring to. He was reborn as growing grain, and his “body” was then eaten as bread.

wiki is your friend:

You’ll also see that other sources for the Osiris myth include Plutarch and the Ikhernofret Stele which gives a detailed description of Osirian passion plays (enacting the death, triumphant resurrection and crowning of Osiris) over 1600 years before Christianity.

I see. So the supposed “resurrection” that you’re referring to was merely his being reborn as grain, rather than being restored to life. Obviously, this is vastly different from the resurrection account of Jesus. Even if we accept your interpretation as a resurrection, its parallels to the Christ story are superficial at best.

I asked for credible sources. I don’t have a problem with Wikipedia as a rule; however, that particular article is based on the work of Martin Larson, who is neither an archaeologist nor an historian. Now, if you were to cite someone likethe egyptologist and archaeologist Henri Frankfort, then I might be more impressed. (Just FTR, Frankfort says “Osiris, in fact, was not a ‘dying’ god at all but a ‘dead’ god. He never returned among the living; he was not liberated from the world of the dead, as Tammuz was. On the contrary, Osiris altogether belonged to the world of the dead; it was from there that he bestowed his blessings upon Egypt. He was always depicted as a mummy, a dead king.”)

I don’t know about Ikhernofret Stela, but Plutarch’s actual writings fall far short of what you are claiming. Plutarch did indeed write about one version of the myth in which Isis temporarily restored Osiris to life, after which he was hacked to pieces and reassembled. As I already pointed out though, this bears only a cursory resemblance to the resurrection of Jesus Christ, in which he was triumphantly exalted unto glory.

Like I said. Special pleading.

Which is largely irrelevant. I never claimed it did. The point is Christian doctrine which combines the OT and the New right?

Read Osiris and the Egyptian Ressurection Volume 1 chapter 10. These 2 volumes were written by E.A. Wallis Budge. Most were taken from the Hiroglyphics. These 2 Books are from Achaerology in a sense, since they are from the original Egytptian writings in stone. Just as valid as the writings of the Muslim, Christian, and Jewish writings, of which there are no Original writings, the closest to the original is the Dead Sea Scrolls. Remember The Bible writings have no more validity then any other except by belief!

All written things, thoughts, Ideas etc. are the work of humans, In truth, it depends on what human you choose to believe!

Indeed, but that doesn’t make it any more valid that any other writing or teaching, but it does imply that there was no mention of loss of a soul, just death. Death means no longer alive!

Jesus was not any more trimumphantly exalted unto glory (he was said to have ressurected, but even His close friends didn’t recognize Him, he promised to return in Glory, and many Christians are still waiting for that) any more than Osiris, if you read the 2 volumes,and the translations of the Hiroglyphics you will see the startling likeness to Jesus story. Osiris was not mummified, that happened many years later during the Dynasties time, Osiris was pre-Dynasty, He acended up to heaven where he became judge of the dead, He was made judge because he was said to be without sin!

Perface to Volume 1 Osiris and the Egyptian Ressurection:
“The central point of each Osirians Religion was the hope of ressurection in a transformed Body and of immorality which could only be realized by him through the death and ressurection of Osiris”

One doesn’t have to believe anything about Osiris because it was written by some humans but there is just as much validity to those writings as any other writings by humans. Wither it is the NT,OT, the Koran or any other!

Fascinating discussion but I think I’m getting a headache. :confused:

I’m a pale Christian insofar as I believe in the ethical and moral guidance of Christianity. I am friendly with my minister but rarely go to church. I do not believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection because both concepts cannot be supported by science.

Strictly that puts me outside Christianity so I simply try to lead a good life and remain aware of spirituality.

I do find the Roman Catholic deification of Mary distasteful.

Catholics will tell you that they don’t deify Mary.

Catholics Honor Mary,like any other person honors it’s parents. She, as I understand it, is asked to pray for them, just as any believer asks another believer to pray for them!

But do you usually ask other dead people to pray for you?

Sure, why wouldn’t you?

In Catholicism, you do it all the time. That’s what the whole veneration of the saints thing is about.

Catholicism has a whole system of patron saints who are asked to intervene (put in a word with the Boss for you) for a myriad of specific purposes.

But i thought you left all your earthly cares behind you when you entered Heaven. Does this mean you are obligated to spend shifts manning a Heavenly Hot Line?

Only if you’re a saint.