Speaking as a British person, Obama, Bush and McCain are all rather considerably to the right of politics over here. Both Democrats and Republicans are to the right of the mainstream parties in the UK. The U.S. doesn’t set the universal standard of politics; from my position, too, this board is quite considerably conservative. A board in which each and every poster was a diehard Democrat would likely be pretty conservative from my perspective.
I can understand that. But, wait, maybe I’m making an assumption—question for all: to what degree is the SDMB a U.S. board?
It seems to me that is is predominantly a U.S. board. Strongly so. Just look at the political discussions. I only want to clarify that because, to your point, while I understand that Americans are generally to the right, globally speaking, I would think that if you judged the board on U.S. standards, that it is definitively to the left. That was the basis for my question to Muffin.
I’m curious as well. I actually don’t know of any boards that are like SDMB but mirror-imaged with respect to liberal/conservative representation.
Some naysayers have been saying this for years.
They’re still here.
Personally, I don’t mind our Conservative Dopers. I like to try to see the other side of the political argument.
However, I get a bit irked when some of them point to the board’s Liberal leanings as if that somehow makes their views more valid. After all, they’re being oppressed.
No, you’re not- you’re just trying to play the martyr. Try being a Liberal and posting on a forum which is *specifically *Conservative- I have, and it’s not fun (I once saw a mod on the Hannity forums joke about all the Liberals he’d personally banned). The difference, of course, is that the SDMB doesn’t have a political lean; there are just more Liberal members here than there are Conservatives. There’s no political agenda, just a bunch of smarter-than-average average joes who identify more with Democrats than they do anyone else.
Accept the fact, and move on. Complaining about feeling picked on? Well, duh- you’ve got the minority viewpoint, of COURSE you’re going to feel picked on. But don’t try to claim victim status, because you’re here voluntarily… just like the rest of us.
Seconded.
Another right-wing Brit who comes here for the novelty of being considered a communist. And to do a little bit of gentle trolling of our American friends. 
But mainly because I haven’t been able to find another English language forum which comes even close to the quality of the debate here. Most British forums are unreadable in their stupidity, every single post.
Not to pick on you, but this seems to be a theme of several non-American posters, so, could any of you give some examples of how the board, in general, is to the right of your respective countries? And not by pointing to the small minority of supposed ‘conservative’ posters, but by showing how the majority of posters on this board hold positions to the ‘right’ of those that are the standard in your own countries? Because, frankly, having been to both the UK and actually living in Canada (not to mention having been to many other parts of Europe) I am not seeing it.
So, how about some examples?
-XT
I think what they mean is that the debates here are over ideas that were settled in the UK 10, 20 or 50 years ago.
Gay marriage, decriminalization of marijuana, elective abortion, universal healthcare, teaching creationism/ intelligent design, and so on - none of these are really under debate in the UK anymore, as far as I’m aware.
So it’s not so much that most posters here are right-wing by UK standards, just that we are most talking about issues that only exist in the far right wing of UK politics.
Maybe in the editorial pages of The Sun.
Interesting view, because the UK doesn’t permit same-sex marriage. They do have “civil partnerships,” but those are not sufficient to be called fully equal and make same-sex unions into second-class arrangements.
So perhaps it should be under debate
Agreed. However, a significant majority of the population wants it, which is why I called it a “settled issue”.
Interesting side note: of the three major political parties, only the “middle one” - the Liberal Democrats - have legalization of gay marriage in their party platform. Suggests somewhat that right/left comparisons between the US and the UK are always going to be a bit misleading.
I’d concur with RNATB. It’s not just that we accept more liberal propositions, but that they’re often simply not even a big debate anymore. Universal healthcare is probably the best example - we’re not just used to it, for the most part, we demand it. There isn’t a strong campaign along the likes of the U.S. for widening gun ownership rights (well, to the extent it links in with hunting, there is), for curtailing abortion or gay civil partnerships and adoption, for the pushing of smaller government. We’re, in general, more accepting of higher taxes, more government support for the disadvantaged, and general governmental oversight on everyday life, though those things are argued widely. Religious lobby groups (especially the more powerful ones, though even that’s something of a misnomer here) tend toward more liberal views.
Bricker, I would agree with you that that should be under debate. But i’d still consider the current situation to be reflective of a more liberal population than the current situation in the entirety of the U.S…
Yeah, I’d agree, it’s pretty strongly U.S.-based. Every now and then we’ll get a thread on some non-U.S. issue, but it’s generally the exception to the rule - plus it’s usually something like 100 non-U.S. threads to 100 U.S. threads.
I’d tend to agree with that.
Pretty much this.
There is no question that this board has a liberal tilt. But still, there are some pearls to be found, such as the epic tales from Master Wang-Ka as an example. Sadly, there are fewer and fewer pearls being found…
Even if we accept that as true, I have to ask…so what? Since a majority of the posters ON THIS BOARD agree with them, how does that make this board ‘conservative’ even by UK/Euro standards?
Again, I’d like to see some examples of how the board leans ‘right’ from the perspective of our Euro/Canadian posters.
So what? I’m a poster on this board and I am in favor of gay marriage, decriminalization of marijuana (and other currently illegal drugs), and all for choice in abortion and think it should be freely available, am rabidly opposed to teaching creationism and ID in the schools, and so on. So, with the exception of UHC I’m almost totally on board with every one of your examples…and I’m considered one of the frigging ‘conservatives’ on this board!
Yeah…but the thing is, even if this were true the position of the MAJORITY ON THIS BOARD are in line with the main stream position in the UK…which was my point. The fact that the majority of Americans don’t agree is beside the point.
So…I’m not seeing how THIS BOARD could in any way be considered ‘conservative’ by UK (or Canadian) standards, unless ‘UK standards’ = ‘absolutely no debate allowed, one just has to conform’. Which would be pretty boring, frankly.
-XT
There’s a difference between “absolutely no debate allowed” and “such is the widespread acceptance of some ideas that there happens to be no debate”. The majority of the board may well be for gay marriage in some form, but there are still debates about it. Likewise gay adoption, gun ownership, drug use/ownership the rights of the state over the person. The UK standard on those issues isn’t that there shouldn’t be any kind of debate at all on those things, simply that the political position of most people is that they simply aren’t debated all that much, or at least, not so much as other things. We aren’t declaring these things verboten, they just seem to be not as debateable for most.
And beyond that, simply pointing out, correctly in some cases, that there is a majority on one issues on these boards and a majority on those issues in the UK doesn’t mean that that majority is the same. 10 and 2 are both greater than 1, but that doesn’t make them equivalent.
Conservatives post here because deep in their hearts they know they are weak, selfish and wrong. They come here for the beating that they know they deserve. It gives them some measure of release, like a confession.
So…I’m guessing that no examples or criteria by which you are judging this board to be ‘right’ leaning or ‘conservative’ are going to be forthcoming then, ehe? Ah well…to carry on. What you seem to be saying is that despite the fact that on nearly every issue given as an example (thus far) the SDMB might be in line with the supposed UK standard (where they no longer question any of these, accept them all, and there is no real debate any more, right?), but because we DO still debate them this is a ‘conservative’ or ‘right’ leaning board, by your standards. Correct?
No, it doesn’t. Unlike the (purported…by you) sheep-like docility of your fellow countrymen (snort), this board has a pretty wide ranging attitude on a truly bewildering number of topics, especially political topics. That said, and with the sole exception (possibly) of gun control, I’d say that this boards posters would clearly favor the same stances on the positions given as examples as any red blooded Englishman I’VE ever met…and most Canadians too. And most of the French I’ve met as well.
Since you haven’t given your own criteria for what makes this board so ‘conservative’ or leaning to the ‘right’, or any examples of how it leans that way (for you or the other non-American 'dopers), I can only speculate, of course, but to me this seems like a meme that is just being repeated without actually being looked at in depth.
-XT
Huh? I mentioned several. You quoted them, just there; gay marriage and adoption, gun ownership, drug use/ownership, the rights of the state over the person. I mentioned higher taxes, universal health care, and government support in an earlier post, too. Are these not examples of criteria?
No, i’m saying that on some of those issues there is a considerable lack of debate, especially compared with America, and where there is debate it’s generally shifted leftward. Take gay marriage; over yonder, in a minority of cases you allow gay partnerships of some kind, and the majority don’t. Whereas here, civil unions are now the norm, and while there’s still debate, it’s less "Why should we have it at all? and more “To what extent should we have it?”. And even then it’s not an election-hinging argument. And, of course, I disagree that the SDMB is in line with those standards.
Saying there is less debate on certain issues doesn’t, shockingly enough, mean there is no debate at all. I purport no sheep-like docility, but that you seem to be willing enough to read “no debate at all on anything” so readily doesn’t speak particularly well of your opinion of either me or of British people in general. I hope it’s me.
I can only disagree. I draw again your attention to the matter of a majority; simply because in both circumstances there would be a majority, does not mean that majority is equal. And beyond that, I don’t believe that the majority view would even represent the majority view of the UK all that well - it’d likely be closer to it than would be the majority view of the U.S., sure, but it’s still quite different. Offer the board the NHS and I wager you’d get a considerable amount of changes. Offer the board gay marriage and adoption and you’d get support, but I would say not as much support as you would over here, nor through the same methods. Offer them our tax system, our means and extent of government spending, and again I think you’d have a fair few complaints.
Given that you have already agreed with one example of how it leans that way (gun ownership), i’m not entirely sure how you can say this. And, of course, I have given many criteria - that you do not agree with them does not mean that I don’t agree with them, and since your accusation relies on me not believing them, me not having thought about them, you are essentially calling me here a liar. I can only assure you that I am convinced that I have given you those criteria and thought about the issue; it is one thing to disagree with that, but it is quite another to declare that even from my own perspective I have done nothing of the kind.
I asked conservatives to give their reasons for posting here. Are you calling yourself a conservative? If you’re not, you don’t need to participate. Especially when the rest of us are apparently enjoying a discussion which hasn’t degenerated into insults.