many i have met who abhor the idea of ever going back to live in america again.
this is not mere reverse culture shock.
several have ended up in thailand, china or australia or some other place that gives them solace but all have the general idea of ‘the states man, fukked up, no way.’
why is that?
Why don’t you ask them?
Because the States are f’ed up, man.
I’ve been out of the states most of the last 20 years. Locally I deal with far less impediments on my freedoms and far less bureaucracy. My most notable red-tape snafus over that time are the few dealings I have had with a US federal or state government agency.
Sadly, for immigration benefits for Mrs Iggy, I am looking at heading back to the States for a few years.
Answers are probably as varied as the reasons they left.
I’d guess that some do wish to go back, but can’t for some reason or another (legal, bureaucratic).
Probably a good chunk left for some strong personal reason and don’t want to go back.
Probably a good batch do want to go back to visit or stay and might do so.
Have you ever considered that maybe…here’s a thought…they like it better somewhere else? :smack:
I did. I’ve lived in Indonesia, Singapore, Australia and the Republic of the Marshall Islands in the course of three separate overseas ventures. As much as I loved it, there was absolutely nothing like coming back to the USA. We have our own issues and problems, but there is no place on Earth that can compare to it.
Here’s one reason: people who work overseas for US companies generally don’t pay US income taxes. In order to maintain that status, you can’t return to the states for more than (I think) 30 days a year. I knew a lot of guys who, when between jobs, would hang out in Mexico or some other country where the cost of living was very low, to avoid screwing with their tax-free status.
They might have absconded with the church funds or run off with a Senator’s wife or killed a man. Or maybe a combination of all three.
I lived in Berlin for 14 years and I came back to the States for a few reasons - weather finally had sucked enough for me in Berlin, my parents weren’t getting any younger and I felt like a move to California (where I had never lived) would be a new challenge. I loved Berlin, and still do, but felt it was time for another change and don’t regret doing so.
However, I can say that the vast majority of my American/British friends in Berlin still live there after all these years and we keep in contact.
Why are they still there?
Some are married and have families and have settled in quite nicely.
Some have great jobs and good salaries and excellent benefits and would be fools to leave them and come back the US.
Especially when living in Europe, the benefit of getting in a car, or on a train, or taking a short flight to any other European country, on a quick whim, certainly makes living there a fun place to be.
Also, living in Europe, the food, the drink, the nightlife, the culture, the music, the art, the theater, fashion, architecture, life style - geez, it is pretty fuckin’ amazing and there is no need to EVER leave. Plus, you can get American movies, TV shows and foods - should you ever have a pang of homesickness - and you can always take a short trip to the US to visit family if need be.
And speaking just of my old haunts in Berlin - well, you have to go there to understand.
Well, more or less by definition, the expats are the ones who haven’t gone home.
For me, while Panama has it’s inconveniences, there are a lot of things I like. I enjoy not having to deal with winter, and the fact that there’s a lot of wild areas that are comparatively easier to get to. A lot of things are cheaper than in the US, and I don’t pay income taxes. Things are generally looser and more free-wheeling than in the US (which admittedly has it’s downside too).
Of course this isn’t something particular to Americans. I know plenty of British, Aussie, and other expats here too.
Yeah, question: Are American ex-pats any less likely to return home than those from other countries?
There is a very large American community in Costa Rica, as well. Between no taxes and low cost of living, they feel there isn’t much to bring them back to the US.
Exactly. I’ve never heard that American expats are any more or less likely to never return home than expats from anywhere else. People just like to move. This isn’t something particular to Americans, nor does it say anything particular about the US.
This is not quite correct. There are two ways to maintain your exemption for earned income (not pensions or any other income). First is to be physically absent for 17 out of 18 consecutive months. The other is to establish foreign residence for at least 18 months. Residence is established by such things as gaining immigrant status, buying a house, not maintaining a US residence,… They ask a few questions, but basically seem to take your word for it.
As for the OP, well right now I would say that I wouldn’t want to live in a country that is about to shut down. But for the long haul, the overwhelming thing is health care. I did not work in the US long enough to qualify for medicare and even if I had, it is not like here where I need a doctor, I see a doctor. The only ones I can’t go to are ones who have chosen to practice entirely out of the public system, which are very few. When I broke my ankle 8 years ago and spent 6 days in the hospital and had an operation to insert a plate, I showed my medicare card, signed a few waivers (permission to operate, to get anesthetic) and that was the only thing I had to do. I left the hospital, there were no bills, no copay, nothing. US medicare, as I understand it, is nothing like this.
I would return (I have three kids living in the states) if I could. Obamacare would help, but it is a pale imitation of what I have here. Very pale imitation.
Then of course there is the utter dysfunction of the government.
I know a number of people who went overseas as English teachers expecting to serve as paid tourists for a few years, and easily get jobs back in the US because international. Fast forward 3 years, they have no marketable skills except teaching English as a second language, which they discover does not command huge salaries back home. So they are sort of stuck career-wise, and at that point either they rip off the band-aid and go back to school or begin nurturing an elaborate system of sour-grapes rationalization of why it doesn’t make sense to go home.
I really think this steady educational drumbeat of “internationalize! learn a foreign language!” needs to be tuned a little bit to emphasize mastering your trade first, then broadening yourself internationally. International exposure is not some magic fairy dust you can sprinkle over an inadequate skill set, expecting success to follow.
The easy answer is that you don’t see the ones who go home, because they are home. I know a couple hundred people who lived abroad, and the vast majority spent a couple years and then went home. A smaller group continues to spend stretches abroad and stretches in the US. Only a few have stayed permanently, and in those cases it’s usually because they got married and set up a household there.
The other answer is momentum. Once you’ve started building a life someplace, that’s where your momentum is- it’s where your friends are, where your job prospects are, where your home is. And if you have something in you that compelled you to move abroad, chances are that drive is still going to be there. People tend to continue doing whatever they’ve been doing.
In my case, I’ve been in the states 3 years after 4 abroad. I would love to get back out if the opportunity is right. My money goes MUCH farther abroad, I’d have an easier time traveling, and I enjoy the challenge of learning new languages and ways of life. My kid would have a nicer house and better school than I could afford here. I find the US to be fun in its own way, but too expensive, too cold, and fairly boring. With a family, I’ll need to be choosier about what I am doing, but hopefully I can make it a reality within the next few years.
I spent 5-ish years living abroad. I would say about half of the expats I met, US or otherwise eventually went back home. I didn’t particularly feel like going back–it wasn’t that I hated the US, but I just enjoyed living abroad and visiting home. I went back for one reason: I wanted to make more money and advance my career and grow my business and it was easiest for me to do that in the US vs where I was living at the time (Hungary.) Many other expats eventually did the same, but many also stayed. If I could have made half the money I make here over there, I would also have stayed. I enjoyed life out there very much.
Some of them are running from lovers, leaving no forward address; some of them are running tons of ganja; some are running from the IRS.
And some, like our oldest, just think the US is too ucked fup to live here any more. Of course, getting flown to a very nice US city for one month a year for training and coordination takes the sting out of living in the most dismal climate in Europe, as does retaining a passport from the country that pretty much rules the world. We’ll see if it becomes a permanent choice or just another slightly delayed 20-sumthin’ ProTest.
The ones who went back home don’t call themselves ex-pats.
Repats
Pat-pats
Pat redux
Post expat