I’ll repeat: The Thai government classifies me officially as a “Non-Immigrant.” In their eyes, I certainly am not one.
Not talking abt official gov. stances. Sorry if I wasn’t clear enough. Talking about expats/immigrants looking different from native people, hence sometimes attracting extra (unwanted) attention and eye-balls.
In addition to the post above, if you’ve moved purely for work you call yourself an expat (concede that many expats also don’t like specific things about America). If you’ve moved for a “better life” apart from maybe your work, you’re an immigrant.
No wonder the first case mostly tends to be first world to anywhere else and the latter case is mostly anywhere to first world.
I can’t agree with that. While it’s true I was with the government the first time I came to Thailand, when I returned to Thailand I was not employed by anyone anywhere. The reasons for my return were many, and not so easily compartmentalized. And I know plenty of oddball Westerners who came here “for a better life” – defined as you will, be it a lower cost of living or tearing through the red-light districts every night – whom I would never consider an immigrant, nor would they, nor would the Thais, official or otherwise.
And if you have children, and they’re born and raised there, will they be expats too? What about your grandchildren?
Many countries do not not recognize citizenship by right of birth. IIRC there are third and fourth generation ethnic Koreans living in Japan who don’t have citizenship and are still considered “Korean,” for example. So in that case, I’d say yes.
I don’t know. It seems more like the Japanese are discriminating against a minority group, and that they are, for all effects and purposes, Japanese. All countries have minorities. They may treat them badly, but that doesn’t mean they don’t belong.
If they’re not allowed to become citizens, are excluded from society, an still consider themselves to be Korean, in what sense are they “for all effects and purposes” Japanese?
Do they really consider themselves Koreans, or is it in the same sense as, say, Italian-Americans consider themselves Italian?
Perhaps it was a bit simplistic, but it touches on a fundamental truth. Legally, Americans living abroad must continue to file US income taxes in accordance with law. Expats have particular filing burdens that are not commonly encountered by Americans residing in the States.
All Americans, whether residing in the States or abroad, do not have to file if they do not meet minimal income levels. Those levels are quite low. There is no filing exemption for Americans residing abroad with only foreign income. Many countries do waive filing requirements for their citizens in such circumstance. The USA does not.
American expats are more likely to have financial accounts outside of the US than your typical American. If account balance(s) exceed certain limits then the expat must disclose account details (FBAR filing using form TDF90 and/or FATCA filing using form 8938). Those filing requirements apply equally to all Americans with accounts in foreign financial institutions regardless of residence but disproportionately impact expats.
Expats also need to file additional forms (Form 1116, Form 2555) to report foreign taxes paid and partial exemption of overseas income for US taxation, even if no US income tax is owed. That is in addition to filing requirements of the country of residence. Filing taxes is so fun that American expats get to do it twice!
Dealing with US tax policy is a common source of complaints among American expats.
Just to add to Iggy’s point: If you earn little enough that you don’t have to file and live in the US, chances are good that the IRS has W-2s or 1099s or nothing at all and can verify your filing requirements. If you live abroad and earn a pittance, the IRS can’t easily verify that and may disbelieve and audit.
PS: When I came to Canada, I was classified as a “settler” by immigration because, as a citizen, I wasn’t an immigrant, and as I had never lived here, I wasn’t returning. I consider myself an ex-pat when thinking about the USA, but otherwise as just a Canadian. I don’t really think of myself as an immigrant: I’m a Canadian born abroad. Family connections and childhood visits make it a different experience than when I lived in the UK, which was more foreign.
The funny thing is that among foreigners in Japan, the term “expat” is used to refer to those who are sent over by their company and are the recipients of the insane “expat” packages: huge homes in the center of Tokyo, business class tickets for the whole family to go home twice a year, American School for the kids (at $30k/re), etc. The contrast are “local hires” which are not given these packages. I either worked for Japanese companies, as a local hire for a US company or did my own thing so I was never an “expat.”
As noted above, if third and fourth generation Japan-born Koreans are still considered to not be Japanese, then a first generation American would simply never be. It is simply absurd for posters such as Alessan to make this argument.
Trying to change the goalposts? The discussion is about people who move from one country to another.
(My emphasis.) Yup, I’d agree that it doesn’t seem like you understand much about this. You simply cannot extrapolate your experience to other countries and certainly not to Asia. You are simply wrong.
These Koreans, third and fourth generation of those brought over to Japan, have Korean passports, must be fingerprinted by the government and must enter Japan in a different line than the Japanese. The same one which I use, as the equivalent of a green card holder. It’s not the Japanese citizen line.
Well, we won’t have any children, as we’re well into our 50s. My best friend in Thailand, a fellow American, has two daughters with his Thai wife. They’re considered Thai despite having US passports. Thailand does not recognize dual citizenship, and the girls are supposed to choose once they turn 18, but in reality most Thais in that situation maintain the other passport and citizenship but keep quiet about it.
My friend’s oldest daughter is high-school age and just completed a year as an exchange student in Minnesota. There was some question about whether she was even eligible for the program since she is a US citizen, but it was finally decided she was for all intents and purposes mainly Thai. Even her English was not 100%, although I hear it’s vastly improved now. This girl seems very interested in her farang (Western) heritage and is now looking at universities in the US. My friend’s younger daughter is pretty much Thai through and through and does not seem that interested in the US.
No doubt every rich western man with a young beautiful woman partner is having an equal, fulfilling life that has nothing to do with the fact that they are rich and the woman is poor- think Hugh Heffner etc etc.
This whole “western men exploiting Asian women” is a pile of horse manure promulgated by PC western people that probably never actually went there.