Why do folks who have something to sell refuse to say what they want for it?

[cosmosdan]

@mhendo

It’s not a matter of “doing you a favor” though, is it?

He’s making a calculation based on the amount of money he would like to get, measured against the time and effort required to sell the item.

He obviously decided that he is willing to spend the extra time and effort in order to get $300 for them, and that the time and effort he would save by selling them all to you at one time is not worth the $25 he would lose by doing so.

He could just as easily ask, “He wants a 14% discount, and he acts like he’s doing me a favor?”

I think the point was, if you’re going from $325 to $300, why say “make an offer” just say “$300 is the least I’ll take.”

[Bozuit]

@cosmosdan

It sure seems that some people see it that way. I thought this was interesting.
"3. “Why don’t you throw out a number?” There are differing schools of thought on this, and many people believe you should never be the first person in a negotiation to quote a price. Let the other side start the bidding, the thinking goes, and they will be forced to show their hands, which will provide you with an advantage. But some research has indicated that the result of a negotiation is often closer to what the first mover proposed than to the number the other party had in mind; the first number uttered in a negotiation (so long as it is not ridiculous) has the effect of “anchoring the conversation.” And one’s role in the negotiation can matter, too. In the book Negotiation, Adam D. Galinsky of Northwestern’s Kellogg School of Management and Roderick I. Swaab of INSEAD in France write: “In our studies, we found that the final outcome of a negotiation is affected by whether the buyer or the seller makes the first offer. Specifically, when a seller makes the first offer, the final settlement price tends to be higher than when the buyer makes the first offer.”

http://www.inc.com/guides/2011/01/five-things-to-never-say-while-negotiating.html

But this part must be stressed:

There is one situation in which making the first offer is not to your advantage: when the other side has much more information than you do about the item to be negotiated or about the relevant market or industry. For example, recruiters and employers typically have more information than job candidates do; likewise, buyers and sellers represented by a real estate agent often are privy to more information than unrepresented buyers and sellers are. This doesn’t mean you should sit back and let the other side make the first offer. Rather, this is your opportunity to level the playing field by gathering more information about the item, the industry, or your opponent’s alternatives to the negotiation. The well-prepared negotiator will feel confident about making the first offer and anchoring the negotiation in his favor.

So if you don’t know much about the value of what you’re selling, you actually aren’t better off making the first offer. This brings us back to what many have said in this thread: Do your homework!

[FoundWaldo]

@cosmosdan

I think the point was, if you’re going from $325 to $300, why say “make an offer” just say “$300 is the least I’ll take.”

Because that 100% guarantees that $300 is what you’ll get. If you say make an offer, maybe you’d get $310. This seems so obvious I can’t even believe there’s a debate.

[Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus]

I’ve wondered about this with respect to apartment vacancies, for which the lawn signs often fail to disclose the expected rents, and came to the conclusion that it allows the owner to gauge the market. Depending on the inquiries received, they can raise or lower the rent accordingly.

[Urbanredneck]

Oh this is nothing. Try going into a fitness center and just asking for prices. The salespeople will pull every trick in the book on you to assess your income level and interest and get you to sign.

And then there are the people pushing time shares.

[cosmosdan]

@FoundWaldo

Because that 100% guarantees that $300 is what you’ll get. If you say make an offer, maybe you’d get $310. This seems so obvious I can’t even believe there’s a debate.

I can’t believe you seriously consider this. Have you ever done any haggling?
Nobody is going to offer $310 on an item when the asking price is $325. That’s ridiculous.

[Mosier]

There’s nothing unethical about haggling, but most people don’t like doing it. They want to hear a number, and either accept or reject it. This is why the most successful “buy used to resell” stores do precisely this. Nobody at Gamestop is ever going to ask you what you want for your used game. They’ll tell you what they’re willing to give, and you’re free to turn the offer down.

I much prefer selling games at Gamestop to selling comics or trading cards at a comic shop for this very reason. I don’t like haggling, and I’m easy to take advantage of because of it.

[jnglmassiv]

@cosmosdan

I can’t believe you seriously consider this. Have you ever done any haggling?
Nobody is going to offer $310 on an item when the asking price is $325. That’s ridiculous.

Exactly.
“So you’re asking $320, eh?.. But would you take…
…$305!!!”

These weren’t new ipads or gift cards or a 2013 Accord or anything with what you’d call a strong market and hard value.
This isn’t a dealership that buys them for a certain cost and has fixed overhead and rent and margins and whatnot.
The items are 40 year old collectible art dealies that he (claimed he) had for decades.
Inviting an offer means you’re open to honest negotiation with reasonable wiggle room. An opener of even 20% off wasn’t out of line, given the circumstances.

This isn’t to say he didn’t get the $300.
I grit my teeth and let polite decorum see me out of there.
Months later, I would go on to complain about it on the internet.

[AnaMen]

I’d never name my price when selling an item to a music shop. By definition, you aren’t going to give me what it’s worth. How am I supposed to figure out the maximum percentage of its actual value I should expect to receive? And yes, when you tell me a price that is 20 - 40% of what you will sell it for, I am probably not going to be happy. When your business model involves taking advantage of people’s desperation, you can’t expect to be showered with rainbows and unicorns.
I’m a decent negotiator, and in my experience, only rookies get bullied into saying a number first, and it is to their detriment.

[Mr.Goob]

Another reason why I love this board, cites and studies…

I do antique restoration as a small part of my buisness. On a side table I have some odds and ends that fell from the sky as in garage sales and auctions. Glass for the brass lamps I work on is always worth a look. A lot of the time a lamp has a set of matched glass. One piece gets broken and the customer needs to match it (rare luck) or buys from me a new set. I always make an offer on the orphan. Will I offer $10-15 for something I might sell in 5 years for $50? Yes I will and shamelessly. I ask the person what are they going to do? Put it in a closet forever to eventually be thrown out or try to sell on eBay with all the time and effort to list and ship it?

I almost always make the first offer on price. I’ve learned it’s painful to watch somebody hem and haw over something they might have gotten from grandma and assume it’s worth a mint. Just because it’s old doesn’t mean it still isn’t a piece of cheap crap bought in a dime store way back when.

I’m an owner operator of a two man shop and if I hurt somebodies feelings I feel no remorse not letting them have the door slam on their ass as they leave in a snit.

Good luck with the real antique dealer getting your price. Talk about car dealers with a sleezy reputation? Antique dealers are cut throat right bastards. Most I’ve dealt with are sell your baby for a half-penny coves. (sorry been reading way too much 19th century literature lately.)

Sorry where was I?

Your stuff is stuff.
My junk is junk.
Stuff is worth more than junk.
ergo; your stuff is worth more than my junk
therefore I need you to see my junk is stuff too
and your stuff is junk

So—

let me make a dollar on your stuff/junk.
you go home with money, and I can feed my cats and me
everybody is happy.

Oversimplication?

—whoa long post, need another cocktail…

[UltraVires]

@cosmosdan

I can’t believe you seriously consider this. Have you ever done any haggling?
Nobody is going to offer $310 on an item when the asking price is $325. That’s ridiculous.

But the thought is that they MIGHT. Continuing the hypo, if the seller makes the first offer of $300, then he guarantees that he will not get $301-$324 for the items. Guaranteed.

If he lets the buyer make an offer, the buyer may very well say $275 or $250 or $315 or $100, but now the seller can say $320 or $310 to keep the negotiations going.

If $300 is the bottom number and you throw that out right away, you may lose the sale. Many people consider negotiation a dick measuring contest and will refuse to pay what the other guy asks out of principle.

[cosmosdan]

@AnaMen

I’d never name my price when selling an item to a music shop. By definition, you aren’t going to give me what it’s worth.

Exactly. I expect a reasonably intelligent person who made a conscious decision to come offer us something to understand that when they walk in. It’s surprising how many people don’t. There are plenty of good reasons why someone goes the quick and easy route of selling something to us rather than trying to sell it themselves.

How am I supposed to figure out the maximum percentage of its actual value I should expect to receive? And yes, when you tell me a price that is 20 - 40% of what you will sell it for, I am probably not going to be happy.

You don’t have to figure it out exactly. Just understand that we buy to resell and that means we have to make an offer that leaves some room for us to profit. If you’re not happy for making about a conscious decision you made yourself that’s certainly not our fault.

When your business model involves taking advantage of people’s desperation, you can’t expect to be showered with rainbows and unicorns.

This is total BS. Most of our customers are not desperate. Lot’s of people don’t have the time or desire to do CL or ebay and are glad there is someplace they can go and get rid of gear they no longer need or use and get cash for it. Quite a few have already tried CL or Ebay and haven’t been successful so they sell it to us just to be done.
There is the percieved value and then the actual value, which is only as high as you can actually sell it for. It doesn’t matter if you think your gear is worth $100 if nobody is willing to pay that for it.
A few customers are selling something they’d rather not because they are in some financial bind. That’s not our fault and some of them are glad to have somewhere to get quick cash to deal with some problem.
It’s two adults talking about a business transaction. The seller is on complete control concerning what they will accept. The buyer is in complete conrol over how much they are willing to pay. When an agreement is reached between two adults nobody is being taken advantage of and nothing is unfair. People decide that less money is worth the time and trouble it takes to sell it themselves and get some unknown higher amount.

I’m a decent negotiator, and in my experience, only rookies get bullied into saying a number first, and it is to their detriment.

I don’t bully anyone. I ask a simple straight forward question and was just wondering why people can’t give a simple straight forward answer. Yes, there is a popular meme that whomever throws out the first number loses. The article I quoted suggests it’s not true. Maybe a decent negotiator like yourself wasn’t aware of that.

[cosmosdan]

@jtgain

But the thought is that they MIGHT. Continuing the hypo, if the seller makes the first offer of $300, then he guarantees that he will not get $301-$324 for the items. Guaranteed.

If he lets the buyer make an offer, the buyer may very well say $275 or $250 or $315 or $100, but now the seller can say $320 or $310 to keep the negotiations going.

If $300 is the bottom number and you throw that out right away, you may lose the sale. Many people consider negotiation a dick measuring contest and will refuse to pay what the other guy asks out of principle.

This is hair splitting unrealistic nonsense.

[AnaMen]

I never said it was your fault that they were in a position to be selling something for less than it’s worth. It’s not the payday loan people’s fault people get themselves into situations where they see borrowing money at exorbitant interest rates seems like their best option either.
In my experience, naming the price first is not a good idea and even less so when you are the person with less knowledge of the market. Your beloved study is probably crap, like most of social “science,” where they set up a situation that would never prove what they claim it will, try it out on 18 people, and rush to publish the “results.” This is why the field gets little respect.
You expect people to be happy to get less than their stuff is actually worth, so you are the one being irrational, not your closed-lipped would-be sellers. If you can’t handle a few frowns, eye rolls, etc. you are probably in the wrong business.