hehe.
I disagree. I am in the U.S., and being in the educational field, I know far more non-medical persons with their doctoral degrees. I would find it rude for the person introducing me (once I’ve attained such a degree) or the person to whom I am being introduced to say “but not a medical doctor”. If you are unsure of their profession, I believe it would be more appropriate when introduced to a “Doctor So-and-So” to politely ask “In what field?”
Why is it a reach for a non-medical person, but not a medical person? Both have worked hard for their degrees, and the degrees they have do confer the title to both.
Yes, you’ve shown how people have a problem with doctors who want to be called by that term, but you’ve assumed that it is the doctors who are somehow at fault for this. My point is that the problem may have nothing to do with the doctors but with is really with people who just don’t like the idea of having to call someone by a title.
So, if I want you to call me “Lord Fiveyearlurker” and you think that is pompous of me, the problem is with you not liking the idea of calling me that title?
Meh, I think you’re being deliberately obtuse. People have given plenty of reasonable justifications for the “Dr.” honorific. At this point, if you don’t like it, then the next time you go to see your friendly neighborhood physician, call him whatever the heck you want. It’s pretty clear you don’t actually want an answer, you just want to sneer at the honorific.
Me, I’ll call my doctor, “Dr.”. He/she has earned the title, and in many ways, I’m interested in the role that the person is playing more than the name. For the same reason, I’ll refer to a university professor as either Professor or Doctor, the guy commanding the ship as “Captain”, and the guy at my local temple as “Rabbi”.
For what it’s worth, I also have a PhD. The only time I ever get called “Doctor” is when someone is overzealously correct in addressing the holiday cards.
Not sure you’re correct here: I believe it is surgeons who get called Mr. (it’s inverted snobbery from when they were barber-surgeons) and I’ve a friend who is a dentist and he says they get the title of Doctor.
What requires me to call someone by a title other than that person’s self inflated views of him/herself? One does not become elevated along some imaginary hierarchy of human achievement by getting a piece of paper that says one is now an MD, Ph.D, etc. I am no better than my fellow man. Thou art no better than thy fellow man. Let us cast aside such petty titles. Neither they nor the scrap of paper bring us closer to God, to whom alone I have any desire to show deference.
If that’s your name or you’ve earned the title, yes.
Again, I don’t understand the defensiveness. Society allows people who have accomplished certain things to have a title. It’s that simple. Instead of looking at it as a reminder of a lack of that achievement on your part, why not look at it as a sign of achievement on theirs? If you want parity, earn the title.
That’s EXACTLY my point. I HAVE earned the title, but I have more concern for the people around me than to ask that it be used.
Sure, it was a kick in the pants to get phone calls for Dr. Fiveyearlurker. For a week or two. I got over it.
Here’s how I deal with it:
Guy I haven’t met before: Hello, Dr. Fiveyearlurker.
Me: Please, call me Five. Only my wife has to call me Dr. Fiveyearlurker.
Voila, I make light of it, and we have a rapport now. A rapport of equals. It works shockingly well.
I’m not asking to change what society allows. I’m asking that the members of society act with a bit more concern. My achievement comes from being allowed to do my job, not from a stupid title.
The use of Doctor and other titles are throwbacks to the middle ages, when the use of titles hit an all time high. Simple ranking of five or six levels of society were exploding into many dozens. In Russia, different form of Your Highness, Your Excellency, Your High Excellency, Your Grace, etc. were expanded and codified into 14 levels just for the clerks in the Navy.
At some point they will disappear here as well. We have given up on nearly all titles, unlike the Brits and within church hierachies. But the trend is fewer titles and less formality every year. Even Mr. and Mrs. and even Ms are disappearing in commercial and governmental correspondence.
Let me step back for a second and explain my background better, and why I see the use of titles as silly.
I work for a company which is remarkably well respected scientifically as well as socially. People want to work for this company, and we’re consistently highly ranked as places to work go.
Here’s one of our policies: No titles. Period. No exceptions.
If you go to the internal address book, you will not know who is a doctor (MD or PhD) and who is not. It fosters a better work environment, better working conditions and open exchange of ideas.
Of course there’s still a hierarchy. But respect and the place on the hierarchy, is earned. As a result, there are research associates (a BS or MS level position) that I (as a PhD) would feel no trouble going to with a scientific question just because even though they are “beneath” me. conversely, they do not have to be intimidated by my “status”. It works so much better than a stuffy hierarchy based on title. I think in a medical practice, it would be difficult for a mere (the way she seems when she doesn’t have a title) nurse to approach “Doctor Soandso” and tell him how to perform a procedure, though many probably could.
I really hate the implication that I’m anti-doctor. Hell, I HOPE my kid (who I don’t have) does so well as to decide to go to medical school. I would prefer that to him/her becoming a scientist. I have no resentment to the profession. But, I think the profession makes a mistake with requesting titles.
You have your concern for the people around you–I wouldn’t say *more. * Put another way, you’ve decided that there is no need for your colleagues to call you “doctor.” That’s your privilege. You see yourself as magnanimous for doing so. But I don’t see how or why you should be able to dictate what others wish to be called when the title is societally acceptable, or to cast aspersions on other people who have earned the title of “doctor” but, unlike you, choose to use the title.
I’ve heard that id. with the title Dr is rather handy when stopped by the police.
Yes, you’re right. Surgeons, not consultants. :smack:
None of the British dentists I know use the Dr. title, in the same way as medical doctors, though they may have doctorates.
Latin Americans are rather fond of titles: lots of ‘ingenieros’, ‘maestros’ and ‘licenciados’ attached to names of professionals, used in the same way as Dr. in the English-speaking world.
Well, THEN I’m not above using the title!
The “defensiveness” comes from an expectation by some that I am to acknowlege an inequality where there is none. Most have a lesser education than I have. Some have an equivalent education in a different area. Some have studied for longer than I have lived. This is no measure of a man or woman’s achievements. I do not hold a yardstick that can measure a man.
If others wish to use titles when addressing others, this is not my concern. If others wish to use titles when addressing me, I will tell them that this is not necessary.* If others wish for me to apply an honorific where I see no honor, I will decline. To do otherwise would be dishonest.
*I refrain from insisting that others not call me something that is technically correct, for I realize that people will use a form of address with which they are most comfortable. It would be silly of me to ask them to do otherwise. If I were a master mechanic, then “Master Mechanic Rukenstien” would be acceptable, althought it would receive a prompt of “Ruken is fine.” The title is not something that I have “earned”. What I have earned is the knowlege and abilities that come from years of work.
Well, as a nurse (RN), daughter of a doctor (MD)…a couple things.
- No Nannygarters, nope, not a one. (Hmm…garters might help with the tentacles, though). comment aimed at Polycarp
I do wish I had thought of it for my moniker here, though!
I hear whoever it was on the scrubs causing confusion. But PLEASE don’t put us nurses back in all white. Horrible to keep clean and not all members of my profession practice um…let’s call it tasteful selections in their undergarments (ahem). We wear blue, the aides wear purple (poor aides), the clerks wear black and the docs wear street clothes (except OB and surg.). It has cut down on patient and family confusion, a great deal. Others depts don’t wear scrubs at all.
I was raised, and in fact, it’s in Emily Post, that an MD (or DO) is the only one able to claim the moniker of Doctor in social settings. Traditions change, and logic may not be on my side, but I prefer that method. I have a BIL who insists on the DR. thing (he has a PhD)–and he looks pretentious and silly, which is right and just, given his character.
At work, I call the ones who write the orders and must be obeyed Dr. X, Y and Z. Don’t think for a minute, that having done this for 20+ years, that I am not pulling strings, talking them out of stuff, talking them into stuff, suggesting, correcting and anticipating orders, all day long. I have no problem with that–it’s a dual approach that can and does work wonderfully well. It adds a formality to the job that is needed, given the gravity of illness etc.
BUT.
It has started to bug me, now that I am in my 40’s, that I am called eleanor and I hafta call a man I have known for 20+ years (contemporary in age) Dr. Maybe it’s the latent feminist in me, but I see the discrepancy and the imbalance. There are a few docs who I do call by first name–but not many.
So, I suggest a compromise. How about Dr. Bob or Dr. Jane? Title is still clear, but somehow to me, the distance is bridged.
Thoughts?
Good luck with all that.
Emily Post should look up the etymology of “doctor.” The Ph.D. has more historical claim to the title than the physician.