Why do modern people look down on full-time mothers?

Great Debates
21

As a gay man and a former live in nanny, I know the job is hard.

I had the benefit of having time I knew would be mine. Parents don’t get that luxury.

Having a 3, 5, and 7 year old to entertain, watch over, cook for, referee, teach, and blow on cuts and scratches(there is a theraputic power that goes beyond placebo, I’m sure of it), I can only figure that those who would deride stay at home mothers gets their idea from the Jerry Springer show.

I can truthfully say for all the energy and time it took to watch over them, it was the hardest job I’ve had.

22

I think it may stem from the misconception that if you are not out in the business world, you are not contributing to society in a viable and productive way. Working mothers are sometimes heralded as “heroes” or “role models” because everyone can see that they are working. SAHM’s (of which I am one), are in the background, and the fruits of their labors are a long time coming.

When I left the business world 5 years ago, I felt a little guilty. I felt that I was no longer contributing or doing my part. I got over that quickly when I saw an almost immediate positive response from my three kids. When I began to homeschool our youngest, I felt that guilt again, that maybe I was somehow taking something from the public school community. We got many a strange look when the son and I were out in public during school hours. I take great pride in teaching my son, however, and have seen remarkable improvements, so I got over that as well. The stigma, however, is still there, to some extent.

23

I have no problem with people choosing to live as they feel best for themselves. Everyone is different and everyone wants different things out of life. There is no way I would look down on someone who is doing what they want to do and is enjoying their life.

I do look down on people who whine about their lives, when they’ve freely chosen that path.
I do look down on people who insult or demean other’s choices to make themselves feel better.
I do look down on people who are convinced their choices are “better”, rather then “better for them”.
I do look down on people who expect other’s to finance their chosen lifestyle.

As a bystander to the whole SAH-mother and WOTH-mother arguments, I have noticed just as many nasty, vicious, insulting comments from both camps. I don’t think SAH-mothers have it any easier or harder than WOTH mothers when it comes to other mothers criticising them. Certain people in both groups attack the opposite decision. Same with any other topic that people are emotionally invested in. Obviously, YMMV.

24

I, too, cannot understand why some people just can’t accept that one way of doing things won’t work for everyone. I am a SAHM, some of my friends are WOTHMs, and we are all doing what is best given all the circumstances of our situations.

The only person who really gives me a hard time about my choice is one of my sisters. She is a lesbian, but I don’t know what, if any, role this plays in her feelings about what I do. My husband and I have tasks divided along very traditional lines; we do this because we both decided it was the best decision for us. My sister, however, seems to think I stay home because it is what my husband wants me to do, and I do everything his way. No amount of telling her otherwise has helped (and I’ve been a SAHM for 12 years now), so I don’t even bother any more!

25

When we were living in “enlightened” Ithaca, New York, my wife caught a lot of flak and condescension from the “liberated” women who lived there for her daring to stay at home and take care of children. She was either a “traitor”, a “doormat”, or some sort of idiot.

That was when I realized that “liberal” and “progressive” are synonyms for “bigot”.

26

WOTHM and feminist (liberal and progressive). Have nothing but respect for SAHMs.
(genie, my groceries are delivered. My house cleaned by a housekeeper. My lawn mowed. But this is not possible for the majority of “no SAHP” families. We are very fortunate to be able to afford these things and it makes it much easier (it would make it easier for SAHPs too!). I wonder how people with multiple kids (I have two) manage to grocery shop regardless of if they work or don’t. I can’t manage to go out and get a hair cut, but I’m guessing you have the same problem (and at least I could take a lunch hour and do it - you are really stuck. I don’t think either choice is easy).

Some “outside” jobs are much easier to be a Mom - I’m lucky to have one where I can be out of the office most days by four. Don’t take work home with me. It isn’t physically demanding, but mentally charging. My boss is very understanding about sick kids, time off for doctor’s appointments, etc. My coworker worked and pumped breastmilk for a full year - and everyone was very supportive (we even scheduled meetings around her pumping schedule).

I don’t know how SAHMs do it. When I’m sick, I stay home and send the kids to daycare - can’t imagine being sick and watching the kids by myself. If I have a quick errand to run, I stop on the way home from work - no bothering with carseats and kids. My kids do their fingerpainting at daycare - and my floors and carpets remain paintless. You guys work darn hard, every day, for sixteen hours a day. There is little alone time when you have preschoolers (where I get an hour of it during my commute every day - peace and quiet, no radio) and small children can be very physically demanding - “pick me up, get that for me, push me on the swing, chase me around the yard.”

27

:slight_smile: I can’t either, but my hair is all one length and when I want it cut, I get my husband or my mom to do it. I cut mr. genie’s hair, too.

At the moment, I have an infant and a 3-yo, and have the 3-yo trained to ‘help’ me push the cart. Or I go alone in the evening, but I much prefer doing it in the morning. I don’t know what we’ll do later! Errands are a pain, and I sometimes save them for a time when I can go alone (luxury!). And the painting easel is out on the porch, where my floor can’t be harmed. :slight_smile:

If I’m sick, we just stay in and watch far more TV than is good for us. Or mr. genie sometimes takes a ‘work at home’ day, which luckily he can every once in a while, to take care of us.

Maybe we should have a ‘mom strategies’ thread…

28

Dedicated to Genie: a mom strategies thread.

29

I’m very fortunate in my work that I have a four day work week and flex time during that week so I can get done all the things I need to and still have time for the boys (although I always wish it were more!)

I live in a predominantly SAHM community and have felt the sting of being a WOHM. I just don’t understand this hostility. I see it with new moms, too, the “you shouldn’t do it that way!” criticisms. Parenting is a huge, difficult, wonderful, momentous job and it leaves me little time to tolerate people who have nothing but non-constructive, unsolicited opinions of what I do and how I do it. Can’t we all just get along? :wink:

30

Wow. Is it possible to be a feminist and not be so incredibly rich? Yes, to me, this is incredibly rich–delivery? Housekeeper? Lawn service? That’s what rich people have. The vast majority of US citizens can’t afford that sort of luxury. Indeed, some of us can’t afford daycare. A working wife would earn slightly less than the cost of daycare in some locales. What’s the point? Now, if I were to run off and abandon my family, then there’d be all kinds of government assistance, but I’m not a slime-sucking deadbeat. So the government tells us to go screw ourselves.

31

This thread is an interesting adjunct.

There’ve been some really useful replies here which have enlightened me.

32

This post is intended to only mention one aspect which has not been mentioned yet - not as an overall assessment of this entire discussion.

My wife is a SAHM - well, she works part-time while the kids are at school.

One of her big complaints was the lack of intellectual stimulation. Kids can be a lot of things, but continually intellectually stimulating is not one of them. A lot of childrearing and maintaining a home are incredibly tedious.

I think that due to a combination of what is required of being a SAHM - as well as the women who gravitate towards that function - many SAHMs are not the world’s most thrilling conversationalists. We encountered many women who did not go to school beyond high school, and did not seem to have many interests beyond their families. My wife found that as an educated/professional woman, the mothers she met at the park district, pre-schools, etc., did not tend to be tremendously intellectual/opinionated/well-informed/etc. For one thing, when they get away from their homes and families, they tend to talk primarily about their homes and families. Yes, those subjects are very important, but some sentient beings might want an occasional break. Even at book clubs, instead of discussing the assigned book my wife would find mothers talking about their households.

One example, a friend of ours needed signatures to be placed on the ballot for a county-wide office. My wife brought a petition to the parent’s lounge during one of our kid’s park activities. Of the 10 or so women there, only 2 were registered voters, and neither of those 2 would dare sign a petition without asking first consulting their husbands.

I freely admit this experience is limited to one particular middle class Chicago suburb. But I suspect it is somewhat more widespread.

My wife used to say how she envied that I got to leave the house and have the possibility to talk intelligently with intelligent people on a variety of topics. Hell, we generally just sit around, drink coffee, and tell fart jokes!

33

dogface,

It is possible to be a feminist regardless of how much you make, but it is much easier to be whatever you want to be (SAHM, WOHM, liberal, conservative, feminist, believer in traditional role models) when the resources are there. And I know that for a lot of parents, they barely break even (or don’t break even) on daycare. And I feel incredibly fortunate - although I’m far from incredibly rich - just “well off.”

34

Oh it drives me crazy when I type out a brilliant post and the servers eat it!

Dinsdale

I’ve been a SAHM mom for 6 years. I have a master’s degree. We have a playgroup of SAHMs in my neighborhood. One was a middle school principal, one was a public defender, 2 were school teachers, one was a R.N., only one didn’t finish college.

When I go to the park or to swim lessons or to the zoo, most of the SAHMs I meet and fascinating and smart women.

I figure the reasons are thus: Most educated women marry educated men. In general, educated men make more money that those who are not educated. Men who make a good salary can afford to have their wives stay home if they want.

35

autz - I’m glad your experience differed from ours.

The burb where we lived when the kids were young was pretty “blue-collar.” Many good incomes, but not too many advanced degrees.

36

autz
My experience is much more like Dinsdale’s. The SAHM I know are mostly the mother’s of my children’s classmates. They are not college educated. Neither are their husbands. Their conversations revolve almost entirely around husbands, kids and school gossip. When another topic does come up, even a very local topic, they are not well informed. This does not mean they aren’t smart- they simply aren’t interested. Now obviously, not all SAHM are like this. I’m not even saying most are- I wouldn’t know, and I do know that in many ways this neighborhod is still stuck in the fifties. But I can easily imagine someone who is on the fence about whether to work or SAH making that decision based on how well they will fit in with the local SAHMs.
Just in case you’re wondering how they survive on one income- they don’t . Either the husbands work so much overtime at time-and-a-half that it’s the equivalent of another income or the husbands have second jobs nights and weekends

37

You are filthy rich. You are veritably dripping with wealth. Go check out a Lakotah reservation some time and tell me you aren’t rich. Walk through some of the neighborhoods on my bus ride to work–heck, walk east from my house for a few blocks…

You are rich, rolling in dough. You may salve your conscience by claiming otherwise, but you are extremely wealthy.

You can afford to hire servants, albeit not necessarily live-in.

38

Well yes. Compared to the slum dwellers of Dehli, everyone on this board is filthy rich. We can read and write. We have access to computers and electricity and clean water.

Compared to Bill Gates, William Buffett or Ted Turner everyone on this board (unless one of those gentleman or the Saudi royal family is a member) is dirt poor.

Wealth is relative.

(BTW, I have been in those shoes. They are darn uncomfortable. One of the reasons I still have a housekeeper (although its been some time since I’ve really needed her - my kids are old enough to give me a few hours to clean my own house and even help in a helpful way) is that in a down economy, she needs the money more than I do - she’s really scrambling for clients. I really don’t need to salve any conscience here. But if it makes you feel better, I’ll fire her and use the $5000+ a year I pay her to play the stock market or buy a big SUV and clean my own house. Maybe I’ll donate to the GOP so they can cut my taxes some more. I’ll also fire my cousin who is mowing my lawn to help pay for his wedding. I can really cut it myself or my husband can - I have a little yard, it doesn’t even take 40 minutes to cut - its just that the $500 for the summer is actually meaningful to him. The groceries are kind of a wash - its about the same to have them delivered as to buy them - and their delivery guys are, according to mine, paid living wages and get decent benefits, including tuition reimbursement. Check it out -www.simondelivers.com).

39

SAH for either gender isn’t really supported by the gender performing it, IME. Certainly, when my husband quit to stay home, the guys were all, ‘are you working from home, or what?’ and stunned by the concept of ‘just’ taking care of a child all day. Professional aspirations of SAHD’s are considered pathetic by some. It is something they’d only do if they couldn’t find ‘real’ work. Etc. They’re an embarassment, a disgrace to masculinity. How can they possibly uphold their role?

A few women I know were horrified at the SAHD concept. “Won’t the baby love him best?” (Like it is a contest between me and him?) But most were thrilled. My favorite response was “Wow, you won’t have a husband who comes home after you’ve been taking care of the kids all day and asks why nothing is ‘done’! Lucky you!” Most of the women loved the idea. Most of the men saw it as a choice only a non-manly man would make, in desperation, if he couldn’t actually work. Somehow. That’s how we measure value, right? Career? Income? “Taking care of the family”? Protector and provider. That’s dad. Not caregiver.

Real moms don’t work. That makes them providers. They’re not really natural moms if they want to be providers instead of caregivers. Right? There’s something not quite complete about a woman who works while someone else takes care of her kids. That’s something MEN do. Not women. Women nurture, are there to kiss booboos, cook, read, and play. Women are there always, mom is always there to run home to for safety and comfort. Men do the going out into the world, and women stay home and provide comfort and safety. (Though what makes it reasonable for men to do the provider role, when they are a parent, too?)

In the reverse, if both parents were able to quit and stay home, would it feel weird? Wouldn’t we wonder who was teaching the kids responsibility, acheivement, and how to make it in the world? Because women have taken on that role, the role of provider, teacher, guide, coach, and professional role model, and truly accepted it, it feels weird to give it back. Why would you do that? Why would you give up the opportunity to teach your kids that women can succeed, be valued for their work, lead, and perform? How awful that some moms by the very act of staying home teach their sons and daughters that women shouldn’t be in the workplace at all!

Both arguments are bull. But I hear them under the angst. Each feels the other is denying something essential to motherhood to their families. And each feels that the other doesn’t value the thing that they are offering, themselves.

40

Oh, and FTR, I go out of my way to support both sides. Mothers are mothers. Good ones are good, and bad ones are bad. I know both good and bad SAHMs and good and bad WOHMs. The working or not is incidental. The loving, focus, passion, care, attachment, respect, and willingness to do whatever it takes to give their kids the best they can, as they measure it, is what makes the best of them.

And humility.

The humblest moms, the ones who will learn from anyone, who know that it is all about making mistakes and letting those mistakes become the boundaries of our future decisions, letting our children make us into the parents our children need, those are the good moms. Working or not doesn’t change that.