- What do you claim that astrology can do?
- By what mechanism does astrology work?
Because it works, sort of. There is more to understanding this world than science, science is just child’s play, though it is educational for humanity. There is real knowledge and wisdom (and power) beyond what we can currently master or even detect using science, so other means are needed. Astrology is one way of accomplishing that. The wisdom of the statement ‘seek and you will find’ is Darma, a universal law.
- What do you claim astrology can do?
- By what mechanism(s) does astrology work?
Duude, buzz-kill! 
Ha! Well, I certainly don’t mean it that way, but there’s a lot of different claims about astrology. I’m more than willing to discuss it with somebody but I just want to make sure I know what we’re talking about first. In particular, psjt has said that a lot of modern astrology is poorly done and is junk. So, before going any further, it would be helpful to know what psjt is talking about when he’s talking about astrology so I don’t get it mixed up with the “junk”.
As usual for proponents of woo, you have it backwards. We are under no obligation to prove astrology false. Its adherents need to prove it works, while overcoming its long history of practical failure and lack of a logical basis.
Good, no woo testimonial is complete without a declaration that one was previously a skeptic, but the wonders of the woo opened their eyes. For added completeness, we see non-believers linked to “dogma”, a variation on “your science is just religion har har har!”
Nor will appeals to how ancient a practice astrology is, or disclaimers about how they’re-not-doing-it-right-nowadays.
Lots of people make nutty claims – that a substance can heal cancer, that they can read minds, that they know the future, etc., and that the position of astronomical objects can strongly influence human lives. There’s no reason to treat any of these claims as anything more than the ravings of con artists and the deluded unless and until they present strong evidence that their claims are true. The scientific method provides ways to test such claims. Without such evidence, I don’t see any reason to take claims about astrology any more seriously than the rantings of the dirty guy who stands by the subway station and yells at the sky.
So, psjt-Can you name one person today that does do it right? Give us your best example right off the bat, so we don’t have to play the “No-that one isn’t a good example. Try again!” game.
Hi snfaulkner,
Well, I’m continuing to reply on this thread, but not making comments directed to past posts on the thread and so, I hope, not raising the dead.
That’s an interesting question. If you look at the word math, you find that it most fundamentally means “learning.” It’s not a word originally about numbers as such. But numbers, of course, are important for understanding the world.
I am just now working on a lesson on measurement of quantity and quality in horoscopic astrology. That’s part of the math and measurements of astrology. If you’d like to know the math behind astrology, feel free to get in touch with me about joining my beginning online astrology class in the method of Morin de Villefranche beginning in mid-September. It’s too much to explain to someone who doesn’t understand the basics of the language and method. It takes learning (math) to understand the mathematics of numbers or astrology.
With regard,
psjt
- If you are in Egypt a few thousand years ago, astrology could predict when the Nile River would flood.
If the stars could predict such important event like that, then they must also be able to predict things like kings and dynasties and even whether you are going to get lucky tonight.
- You look up at the stars, and then use them to justify what you already believe.
Oh dear. I just made tea come out of my nose.
Hi k9bfriender,
I’ll answer the questions you pose in a different way.
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The proper practice of horoscopic astrology reveals the parts, structure and ordered dynamism of the human-centered world.
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Astrology measures the quantity, quality and direction of the great cosmic force of determination
Astrology is not about belief. It is about learning, observing, measuring, remembering, reasoning and practicing.
When I ask others who make outrageous claims (flat earth, lizard people conspiracy, etc.), they’ll often say it’s complicated and that to learn it will take a lot of time and effort. But I don’t have the time and effort for every outlandish claim out there. If you can’t link to a study, or provide some other sort of straight-forward evidence, then your claims are no different than the millions of other weird, unsupported claims made by dime-a-dozen charlatans and crazy people.
Here’s a simple way to provide at least some basis for your claims, psjt: make a prediction. Make a prediction about some specific event that will happen in the world, and be as specific in location and timing as possible, here in this thread, in the next few weeks/months, based on your astrology methods. Then we can come back and see if your prediction is true. If it really was a specific prediction, and it really comes true, then we are a lot more likely to take your claims seriously.
Hi iiandyiiii,
I think that after a proper 12-week class in the basics of horoscopic astrology, pursued with reasonable effort and open-mindedness, you would be smart enough to be able to play reasonably well the game the principles, rules, method and techniques of horoscopic astrology require.
Without that basis, though, you wouldn’t understand–anymore than I would understand calculus without pre-calculus mathematics and a good source of information on calculus.
I wouldn’t consider myself able to denounce calculus without at least learning the basics. And actually, to denounce it, I’d have to know more than the basics.
You have a belief that astrology impossible–based perhaps on a materialist dogma. You apparently think it’s worth you taking the time and effort to state your unfounded beliefs in strong terms, but not worth getting sufficient knowledge and skill to put you in the position of one who is able to judge.
With regard,
psjt
My-revelations-are-far-too-sophisticated-for-you-mere-mortals-to-understand is another good one.
A few more, and we’ll have Woo Bingo.
Jackmanii, My view has nothing to do with my revelations are far too sophisticated for you mere mortals. My view is that to make a statement, one needs to know what they’re talking about. If you don’t know the theory, method and practice of horoscopic astrology, you are not in a position to judge it.
iiandyiii, Here’s a simple way for you to become better able to judge astrology: take my 12-week online beginning class with a sincere effort to understand how to play the game, and then I’ll make you some predictions.
Unless this discussion becomes more fruitful, I will bow out now and wish you all well,
psjt
Calculus is a branch of mathematics which allows you to approximate a result by approaching and infinite number of intervals.
What is astrology and could you show us a result, even if we are too uneducated to appreciate the work behind this result?
You’re not the first to offer a course or other resources for some extraordinary claim. If I said “yes” to all of them, I’d have to quit my job and quit sleeping to get it all done.
Why is your claim better than the hundreds/thousands/millions of other extraordinary claims that are made? If your system actually works, why not demonstrate it? Make a prediction for something major (and specific!) happening in the world next week, and let’s see if it comes true?
And how much are you charging for this 12-week online class that you bumped a 15-year-old thread to mention several times, Mister Beginning To Look Like A Spammer?