And those of us that do know also know that there is a bill that funds not only that bill, but all of the other bills that the Tea Party House is trying to pass to try to escape the public relations hit stemming from their own callous intransigence.
Most of us are not fooled. We knew this battle had to happen. The Tea Party House must pass the continuing resolution that the Senate has already managed to pass.
Although it seems to be the only thing the Dems care about I’m not talking about public opinion. The Dems are attempting to make this shutdown as painful as possible to win public support. Who cares if a few kids die as long as the Dems come out looking good as a result. I’m also fairly certain you are not dense enough to believe the Republicans want to block ACA because they don’t want people to get health insurance. That’s a grade-school argument.
Then the House should pass a clean continuing resolution. I bet you can guess why they won’t.
To be fair, it is entirely their fault because it was their idea and many of them even announced they were going to let the government shut down so they could get rid of the ACA. Nobody is going to believe that Democrats don’t want to fund the government. They have never campaigned on anything like that. They’re not the ‘government is the problem’ party that says we need to eliminate a bunch of federal departments. I think everybody understands they want those programs funded. Since the Republicans chose this fight, the Democrats pretty much have to keep letting them punch themselves in the face until they give up. If they do anything else, they’re protecting them from the consequences of their own actions.
See, you could make this argument if the Republicans hadn’t provoked the shutdown. They did, so it doesn’t hold water. Further, the consequences of the shutdown are much bigger than the clinical trial piece; that’s just one egregious result. The shutdown is blocking a ton of useful programs and the Republicans don’t care. They were happy to have the government shut down, so that tells you everything about their priorities.
Perhaps you’ll do better if you read more closely. I said they were willing to do all this to block a program that offers health insurance. Although in practice it’s pretty much the same thing.
One more time, because I honestly believe you’re arguing in good faith. The Dems were willing to negotiate over the budget.
The Republicans refused, and initially demanded the ACA get fisted. They are now demanding less and less, but remember this one really important thing:
THE REPUBLICANS ARE OFFERING NOTHING BUT ALLOWING THE NECESSARY WORK OF GOVERNMENT TO RESUME. THEY OFFER NOTHING ON THE TABLE. THEY SIMPLY WANT EVERYTHING THEY DEMAND, AND THEN THEY WILL LET THE NECESSARY WORK OF GOVERNMENT TO RESUME.
THE DEMOCRATS ARE DEMANDING NOTHING. THEY WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO RESUME.
Please, be honest with yourself. I know this is your team. And I know you identify strongly with them. But they are the ones in the wrong here. You really should be able to see that if you try.
That’s right. Our way is the legislative process prescribed by the constitution, which has failed Republicans trying to enact their policies. Now they are resorting to taking hostages because they cannot take fuck you for an answer.
But here’s the thing: they even fucked that up. The first rule of hostage taking is, you kidnap the the baby and demand the money. The Tea Party idiots fucked that up, and kidnapped the money, and now expect Obama to give them the baby! Nobody trades the baby for the money!
So now we have Republicans standing there holding the money, wondering what the hell they are going to do now. The public is getting restless, the polls are going south, but they can’t quite understand they are going to have to suck it up. There is no way out for them other than complete and utter capitulation. They bet it all, and now they get nothing.
You are talking about Republicans here… this is why we are at this impasse in the first place.
Then, for once, the vast majority of Americans are well-informed.
There is no bill passed by the House to specifically do this.
There does not need to be, because as soon as it was publicized that this was a problem, the employees who enroll people in clinical trials were called back to work. This was documented in a post I wrote, replying to you on this, last night:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16727890&postcount=605
The House did pass a bill to fund NIH at disgracefully low sequester levels, if that is what you mean. The Senate is right to resist.
That is hilarious!
I have a couple of uses for the federal government. Social security for the aged (and Medicare) and healthcare for all. We get this crappy version of health care, but I will settle for it instead of the wonderful system the Europeans and Canadians have because of the stupid in Washington. I suppose armed forces in case we get invaded are something we have a use for, but we seem to be deeply overprepared in that department.
So really, Republicans, shut it down and keep it shut down. If you can’t fund the government because of a public mandate to buy private health insurance is that offensive to you, please, make your point and keep making it. I have little use for a federal government that doesn’t provide health care to its citizens and food stamps for the poor.
If the Republican House insists on continuing to show how useless, irresponsible and stupid it is, then I say, “please, proceed.”
I have some sympathy for what I think you’re saying here.
The problem is, in practice, if the Tea Party tactics are accepted as legitimate and proven to be effective, we get farther away from the possibility of the government being able to provide a safety net, because it will be powerless. You think the gridlock now is bad? Brother, wait until it’s bribery, warlords, and corporations with all the power.
The people that are most directly affected by the shut down will have a lot less complaining to do now that they are getting what amounts to a paid administration leave. It’s like they shot someone while on duty or something lol
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-government-shutdown-20131005,0,922179.story
That is a huge mistake. Require both parties to be grown ups or shut the damn thing down.
The tactic is legal. As long as people vote for idiots, the safety net will be worthless. Government is currently run by bribery, warlords and corporations. That isn’t to say all in government are corrupt, but a large number are, and take and demand bribes. If you don’t think that Cheney, Wolfowitz, Abrams, Perle and their generals are warlords, you are letting the pretty garments fool you. If you don’t think corporations call all the shots that matter to them, you are also fooling yourself.
Actually, the ACA is already funded within its own bill - that’s why the exchanges, etc are up.
What the House CR does is defund the ACA - basically amending it. They couldn’t do it via regular order, so they are holding the rest of the government hostage to their demands.
First of all the Republicans are not my “team”. The only group I have less respect for are the Democrats…and it’s not that much less.
Second, the democrats in the Senate have shown zero interest in any type of compromise. The republicans knew they weren’t going to get defunding through the senate. The house came back with two additional offers that were immediately shot down. The last offer was a one year delay in the individual mandate and eliminating federal subsidies for lawmakers and aides on the hill (as per the ACA legislation). The democrats want a clean CR and nothing more.
The house has passed numerous funding bills for different government agencies and all have been rejected by the senate. The senate democrats are demanding a clean CR and will not fund individual agencies (or even the park service) because they want the shutdown to be as painful as possible.
To be fair, the republicans didn’t want to shut down the government either. They knew (or at least thought) that, just like last time, they would be blamed. I really believe they thought compromise was possible and, considering the fact that they lowered their demands twice, it should be obvious that they were not attempting to shut down Obamacare and nothing less. I think the fact that the Senate would not negotiate at all is directly responsible for the shutdown.
See, you could make this argument if the Senate had not blocked a bill to fund the NIH research and the President had not threatened to veto any individual spending bill.
I read it closely and I know exactly what you are saying. My point stands.
So, the Democrats called the Republican’s bluff. They demonstrated a shutdown does not scare them, and sent an ultimatum to the House. What should the Republicans do now? The ball is in their court.
Not negotiate at all? They’ve already given in on so much they won’t go further… The Senate Continuing Resolution Is Already a Compromise
If the Republicans cave completely, that’s the end of the Republican party (as it is right now) as any kind of political force after next elections. It would lead to a split. The big mistake Republican establishment, Democrats, Big Business etc. make is that they use their own hypocrisy stick to measure Tea Party candidates. They are wrong, in most cases, and this leads to current mess and to the future messes.
So Republicans don’t have much choice other than continue this. Or die off as “Republican Party”.
And the Democrats can’t give in, because that would be the end of any functioning divided government. It’s a shame the Republicans got themselves into this mess. Luckily, there’s one bill that actually has majority support in the House and Senate, plus the President would sign it. But Boehner won’t bring it to a vote.
Of course the main function of the Syrian government is to kill any Syrian who doesn’t agree with it.
Tinpot dictators have the luxury of not having too many people who disagree with the budget.
The republican party can’t die off yet … who would run against Mrs Clinton or VP Biden in just three more years?
Rand Paul as an independent? 