Why do people who aren't rich care how much in taxes rich people pay?

[Slash1972]

@Ruken

Because people have a sense of fairness and do not like seeing violated, even when that violation does not directly affect them. It is not necessarily rational. Wikipedia has some articles on Justice, Distributive Justice, Procedural Justice, etc.

This may be true, but “fairness” can be a subjective term, and doesn’t always have the same definition.

Seems strange to me that a person, who makes $50,000 a year could hear “Hey, that guy worth $30 billion has to pay $10 billion in taxes” and think to themselves “That’s not fair!”

[Ruken]

@Slash1972

This may be true, but “fairness” can be a subjective term, and doesn’t always have the same definition.

You are absolutely correct. Fairness can be both irrational and inconsistent. Yay humans!

[k9bfriender]

@Slash1972

This may be true, but “fairness” can be a subjective term, and doesn’t always have the same definition.

Seems strange to me that a person, who makes $50,000 a year could hear “Hey, that guy worth $30 billion has to pay $10 billion in taxes” and think to themselves “That’s not fair!”

It’s more often, “That guy who made $100 million had to pay $15 million in taxes” and think to themselves, “That seems unfair, as I pay a higher percentage than they do.”

[Slash1972]

@k9bfriender

It’s more often, “That guy who made $100 million had to pay $15 million in taxes” and think to themselves, “That seems unfair, as I pay a higher percentage than they do.”

Sure, I agree with that. But there are some people who pay a higher percentage than rich people, but STILL are against tax hikes for rich people. That’s what I don’t understand, and was the basis for my, admittedly not as clear because I had a few beers, question

[Quimby]

@septimus

There is a fourth pillar which raises much more money nationally than either sales tax or property tax: Payroll taxes, incl. especially SocSec and Medicare.

True but technically that money is earmarked (even though in reality it just goes into the Treasury). Regardless, SS tax skews in favor of the wealthy even more than other taxes because it’s capped at at about $120,000. That cap was one of the reasons Reagan had little qualms about raising the SS tax over and over. It barely effects the wealthy. They pay their share at about three minutes after midnight on January 1st.

[mcgato]

I skipped a lot of the posts, so someone may have covered this.

Why do the poor care how much taxes the rich pay?

1. They feel that the rich earned their money, so they should be able to keep it.
2. If the rich pay more in taxes, the government will just piss it away. Rather have the rich keep it.
3. If the rich pay more in taxes, that money will likely go to those people. Like free iPhones for single mothers in the ghetto with too many kids.

So low taxes on the rich forces the government to get smaller, which is a key goal of much of the right wing in America.

[k9bfriender]

@Slash1972

Sure, I agree with that. But there are some people who pay a higher percentage than rich people, but STILL are against tax hikes for rich people. That’s what I don’t understand, and was the basis for my, admittedly not as clear because I had a few beers, question

The only way I can rationalize it is that if they know that the rich pay less in taxes percentage wise than they do, then they can demand that their taxes be lowered.

[Doctor_Jackson]

@septimus

Repeat the calculation using Income Tax Plus Payroll Tax instead of just Income Tax. Is it still “pretty progressive”?

(Yes, the payroll taxes are for specific services. But the same can be said of components of the income tax.)

According to Pew, yes it is:

All but the top-earning 20% of American families pay more in payroll taxes than in federal income taxes, according to a Treasury Department analysis.

Still, that analysis confirms that, after all federal taxes are factored in, the U.S. tax system as a whole is progressive. The top 0.1% of families pay the equivalent of 39.2% and the bottom 20% have negative tax rates (that is, they get more money back from the government in the form of refundable tax credits than they pay in taxes).

[foolsguinea]

@Drunky_Smurf

Do you have any money in a savings account? If so, why are you hoarding money that could go to a charity.

You don’t need to have a house when an apartment is just fine. Sell your house and move into an apartment. Give the money from the sell to a charity.

You don’t need more than one shirt and pair of pants and socks. Sell the rest of your clothes and give the money to charity.

If you really cared you would do all those things.

There is a range between paying a 50% income tax and being the Giving Tree.

[FlikTheBlue]

IMHO the problem is with the lower taxes on income that is not earned by one’s labor. It’s one thing to raise taxes on the Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson, or Warren Buffett, who infamously pays a lower rate than his secretary. It’s another thing altogether to raise taxes on people who actually have to work for their money, even if it is 200 or 300 thousand a year or even a million per year. The former would be a good thing, the latter a bad thing.

[k9bfriender]

@FlikTheBlue

IMHO the problem is with the lower taxes on income that is not earned by one’s labor. It’s one thing to raise taxes on the Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson, or Warren Buffett, who infamously pays a lower rate than his secretary. It’s another thing altogether to raise taxes on people who actually have to work for their money, even if it is 200 or 300 thousand a year or even a million per year. The former would be a good thing, the latter a bad thing.

With the way many wealthy people are paid now, through stock vehicles with capital gains rates at around 15%, it will be those who work for their paycheck that shoulder the bulk of the taxes.

[Quimby]

A few years ago I had some unexpected expenses and had to cash in a Mutual Fund I had. The amount, coincidentally, was just about what I got paid per month at the time. When I saw how minuscule the taxes were on the Fund income vs. my monthly pay check it really hit home how we are getting played for suckers for working for a living. People whose incomes come from investments make all the rules so those rules skew in their favor. That is wrong and needs to be fixed.

[Bill_Door]

@Quimby

A few years ago I had some unexpected expenses and had to cash in a Mutual Fund I had. The amount, coincidentally, was just about what I got paid per month at the time. When I saw how minuscule the taxes were on the Fund income vs. my monthly pay check it really hit home how we are getting played for suckers for working for a living. People whose incomes come from investments make all the rules so those rules skew in their favor. That is wrong and needs to be fixed.

True dat. That’s what I’ve been telling my children and grandchildren, nobody ever got rich working for a living. Passive income is where it’s at.

[FlikTheBlue]

@k9bfriender

With the way many wealthy people are paid now, through stock vehicles with capital gains rates at around 15%, it will be those who work for their paycheck that shoulder the bulk of the taxes.

Right, that’s my point. I think the people who want to raise taxes on the likes of Tom Brady, Lebron James, George Clooney, and everyone else who earns there money by actually working for it are misguided. We should instead be raising taxes on the Koch brothers and Warren Buffetts who use there wealth instead of their labor to make their income.

[Slash1972]

@FlikTheBlue

Right, that’s my point. I think the people who want to raise taxes on the likes of Tom Brady, Lebron James, George Clooney, and everyone else who earns there money by actually working for it are misguided. We should instead be raising taxes on the Koch brothers and Warren Buffetts who use there wealth instead of their labor to make their income.

You think Lebron James works harder than Warren Buffett?

[foolsguinea]

You think Warren Buffett works?

And yes, LeBron works harder than Warren Buffett, and makes less.

[Slash1972]

@foolsguinea

You think Warren Buffett works?

And yes, LeBron works harder than Warren Buffett, and makes less.

I guess if you consider throwing a ball into a hoop as work.

[kaylasdad99]

I suspect that there’s a reason they call it “playing” basketball (football, baseball, tennis, golf, etc.), rather than “working” basketball (et al).

[foolsguinea]

If you don’t think it’s work, I dare you to spend some time around a professional sportsman of any kind. Golfer, basketball player, boxer, whatever. It’s a lot of work.

[Slash1972]

@foolsguinea

If you don’t think it’s work, I dare you to spend some time around a professional sportsman of any kind. Golfer, basketball player, boxer, whatever. It’s a lot of work.

Like I said, if you think throwing a ball into a hoop, or hitting a ball with a stick, is work, then good for you.