I still think the bad decision was taking on $150,000 in student loan debt as an older person. I really wish we had more facts, where did she go to school to rack up this much debt? Was part time work/school not an option at all? I wonder if the financial aid office at the school ever mentioned that this might not be a great idea.
You’re likely right. And, I agree that there is a ton of information that the story doesn’t cover, also including:
- Was she originally planning to get a doctorate? (Which would have entailed even more debt, probably, but also opened up more, and higher-paying, positions to her.)
- What are her husband and dogs doing through all this? Are they living in the car with her?
- It says that her husband is unemployed – what’s his story?
It certainly comes across as though she’s made some poor or unfortunate decisions (and that she may be continuing to do so), but we’re doing a lot of speculation here, as well.
Oh, I’m well aware! Of the eight or so doctorate holders I know personally (not including JDs), 1 or maybe 2 have tenure, and another 2 have tenure-track positions, and the others are various flavors of adjuncts and lecturers.
I’ve considered going back to get a doctorate and work in academia, but it just hasn’t really seemed like a good risk vs. reward calculation. I have a pretty solid career now, and don’t really relish the idea of having to potentially uproot my family and/or take a major pay cut just to do something I’d probably enjoy a little more than what I do now with a little more freedom in terms of how/when/where I do my job.
I thought one of the stories said her husband was living in a tent, presumably with the dogs, and is out of work due to a back injury.
Regards,
Shodan
Ahhh, thanks. That wasn’t included in the story linked to in the OP.
Also, since a few people have mentioned the unwise decision of taking on a bunch of student debt when she was older…
The article states that she’s “in her 50s,” and that she lost her original job “in the dot-com bust.”
There aren’t exact dates in there, so we don’t know when, exactly, she lost her old job, or when went back to school, but the dot-com bubble is usually defined as having started to burst in March, 2000 (and continued to burst into 2002, coinciding with a general recession).
Given that, it seems likely that she lost her dot-com job when she was in her 30s. Assuming that she started her Masters soon thereafter, it paints at least a slightly different picture if she took on that debt in her 30s, as opposed to in her 40s or even 50s.
Yep. I got some experience with that in 2007
It is quite likely they did what I did - when I started applying to big box stores I simply left any education past high school off my job app. I went from no response to apps to three interviews within two weeks and a job within three.
It also helped I scrubbed age references from my resume and I can still pass for someone 10 years younger than I actually am (15 if I really make an effort).
Despite several decades of job experience by 2007 my former career was pretty much gone thanks to outsourcing and advancing software. I started out on the bottom again and I was at peace with that, and I’m somewhat working my way up the retail ladder as a new career. To be honest, though, I’m not feeling overly ambitious, don’t really want to go into management, and my employer has nudged me into a niche where I have a nice mix of routine and problem-solving. Most days I like my job at least somewhat and I have enough money to pay the bills and stash some away on top of it. Coming out of a few years hell (poverty, dying family members, etc.) having a job that wasn’t too demanding has been a relief.
I am planning to move on in a bit, but not in a hurry at present.
In other words, I get it when someone doesn’t want to push-push-push for more money/status/whatever. On the other hand, if I found myself living out of my car I’d seriously reconsider my current path in life.
Local housing codes can interfere with renting out rooms as opposed to separate units.
This story says she started studying for her bachelor’s in 2007. That would have been 5 years after the dot com crash and before the Great Recession.
So, she was in her 40s when she started and looks like she rode out the Great Recession by being a 40 something full time college student and then continuing on for a Master’s. Very questionable decision making, in my opinion.
FYI: The Guardian article above covers a couple of other adjunct professors in addition to her.
Thank you for finding that – it definitely helps to complete the picture.
One thing that it clears up is how she accumulated that much student loan debt – she didn’t just go back to school for her Master’s degree, but started with getting a Bachelor’s in English, followed by the Master’s (the original article didn’t make that clear).
And, so, yeah, embarking on at least 6 years of education (for the two degrees), and the accompanying debt, when you’re in your mid 40s (the article was written in 2017, when she was 54) does seem to be, at best, a very optimistic decision, and, at worst, pretty foolish.
It’s not clear at what point her husband suffered his back injury, but the original article suggested that they were living on savings while she was in school, as well; it’d possibly have been a different story if she’d gone back to school while he was working, so at least the family had one income, and wasn’t having to deplete their savings.
I mean, maybe? But would it have earned her much more money than now? The average first year post-doc in all fields averages less money a year than I do, and I only have a BA. (she teaches English, and my degree is in English also but I do tech work)
It sounds like she had set out to be an English professor when she changed careers. I’m not an expert in academia, but if that was, indeed, her goal, I’d guess that having a PhD would make her eligible for more positions (including tenure-track positions) than a Masters.
I’m going to assume she fell victim to, ‘Follow your dreams!” But, trying to change paths and get advanced degrees in English when you’re in your 40s with a husband that’s about ten years older than you and worked as a truck driver just doesn’t sound like the most adult decision especially when it involves taking on massive debt.
I could pay obscene rent here in Munich, and live in an international metropole where my skills are needed and I can do what I like…
…Or I could move back to Maine, find cheap housing, and live in the middle of butt-fuck nowhere, find that I have very little to do, and end up doing a whole lot of drugs to stave off the incredible boredom.
Look, I love my homeland, I love MDI (in appropriately small doses), but let’s be clear here - for a whole lot of people, there’s just nothing on offer there. And if you’re used to living in a big city, in a place where there’s so much going on, the cultural, intellectual, and economic centers of the country… There’s just no way you can go back to living in a small town in middle America. How could you?
I don’t know much of anything about Kansas City (or Boise, or St. Louis, or any other middling midwestern city). But I’d be shocked if they offered anywhere near as much and simultaneously cost substantially less.
I don’t see the issue - I mean, you can stare at the screen of your smartphone anywhere.
I lived in Chicago for 15 years and loved it (until the neighborhood became dangerous).
I moved out to the edge of rural/farm country 20 years ago and I’ve loved it.
You know, you can get to a point where you’re full of culture and tired of the constant buzzing of the city. You move out to the country and find it’s restful. And you can still go back and visit the big city when you want to do so.
As noted, these days the internet can bring a lot to your doorstep, too.
Be shocked. I find that most towns/cities of over 20,000 people have alot of what your saying just not to the same degree. Plus your maybe what - an hour or two drive at most from a major city of a million or more?
And again, you dont have to be in the same room to be in the company of other like minded persons with the internet.
Or really good ramen, apparently.
Kansas City has three professional sports teams, a ballet, an art museum, a distinctive local cuisine, a traditional of jazz music, and various historical sites. It may not be New York, but it’s not a cultural wasteland either.
I totally get that many people like to live in towns and not big cities. Everyone has their preferences.
But why do you seem to assume that people who like big cities are totally misinformed about what towns are like? I mean, you might as well be calling all city-slickers a bunch of idiots for not appreciating how good you have it and wanting to get in on it.