It’s highly dependent on the actual pistols though. I have a Ruger P95 with a polymer frame (9mm) and my brother has a M1911A1 (45 ACP).
The 9mm is quite a bit more violent than the 45, due to the considerably lighter weight. More muzzle flip and just generally harder kicking. While the 9mm kicks, the 45 has more of a push, and less muzzle flip (to me anyway) because it’s considerably heavier.
I imagine if I had a relatively heavy 9mm it would be a different story though.
I don’t know what the percentage of departments that use the 9mm. We use a .45 as do most of the departments that I know of in my part of the state.
.357 is almost the same as 9mm, and from what I saw when I verified my conversion, “.38” is just a rounding up of “.357”.
That’s one thing which is a pain when comparing calibers of anything, be it bullets or pipes - very often, the list of “things you’re comparing” mixes units, and depending on what tolerances and what unit definitions were being used, some of those sizes may be mutually compatible or not.
Only in the circumference of the bullet are they similar. Weight of the round plus the amount of propellent used in the cartridge completely change the dynamics of the comparisons.
For instance, a .357 is a .38 bullet in a longer cartridge. A .380 is a 9mm bullet in a shorter cartridge. The additional or subtracted amount of powder used will change the power of the same bullet, sometimes significantly.
I carried an issued .357 for about 8 years. I freaking hated it. The full loads kicked pretty hard, I found reloading a revolver under stress difficult, and after 200 rounds that cylinder got hot as hell. But at that time I had no choice as to what to carry.
You are correct that the .38 projectile is .357 inches.
The ‘.38’ comes from the .38 Short Colt, which was designed to be used in cartridge-loaded conversions of the Colt Model 1851 Navy revolver. The 1851 Navy fired a ball or conical bullet of .374" to .380". Hence, ‘thirty-eight’. (IIRC, the diameter of that gun was measured between the lands rather than the grooves; but I don’t have my reference book handy at the moment.) The .38 Special (designed by Smith & Wesson) was essentially a development of the .38 cartridge. The Colt cartridge used a ‘heeled’ bullet. That is, the heel of the bullet fits into the case, and the outside diameter is the same as the case. So there’s the .357" measurement. The .357 Magnum was developed almost 40 years after the .38 Special, and there was no reason to call the new cartridge a ‘thirty-eight’. ISTM that having to different measurements for rounds that fire the same diameter bullet might reduce the chances of mis-loading a firearm. While a .357 Magnum revolver can fire .38 Special ammunition, the reverse is not true. If the later round were called ‘.38 Magnum’, it would be easy for someone to load the wrong round.
The .38 Short Colt really was .38" in diameter, but it seems somewhat common to do a bit of rounding. An example that comes immediately to mind is the 7.92 mm Mauser rifle round, which is commonly called ‘8 mm Mauser’. In addition, some rounds are called by different names in different places. An example of that is the .380 ACP, which has several names but the most common ‘alternate’ is 9 mm Kurz.
Yes, .38 is meaningless and the bullets themselves are .357" +/- 0.001". The name is just a “guideline.” For example 9x19mm (Parabellum/Luger), 9x18mm (Makarov), and 9x17mm (.380) are as the name suggests, about 1 mm (+/- 0.2mm) different in length, but in actual diameter, respectively 9.01, 9.27, and 9.0mm, despite the same diameter given.
The only difference is that .357 cases are 0.135" longer, with commensurate increases in powder, bullet weight, and possibly primer. IIRC the length difference isn’t even always necessary as the powder will often fit in the .38 case except to prevent people from accidentally putting .357 in their .38.
What you say is technically true for the most part but also very misleading. A .357 bullet is roughly the same size as a 9mm or a .38 calibre but the overall energy projected is in a completely different league. Both the 9mm and .38 are moderate energy rounds that are pussycats to shoot but can still definitely drop a person on the spot but some would argue that they are somewhat underpowered.
The .357 suffers from the almost opposite problem. The cartridge is so powerful that it isn’t pleasant to fire at all even at a shooting range let alone in an emergency situation. It also requires a revolver design that limits you to 6 shots which may not be enough. I have owned several .357 revolvers and had a love/hate relationship with them. I appreciate their power but regret the fact that I will get pissed off at it every time I pull the trigger and my ears will literally ring for days if I am dumb enough not to wear strong hearing protection.
I always asked myself, if you are going to go for a revolver that powerful, why don’t you just get a .44 magnum and be done with it? It is a legitimate question but I partially answered it myself when I shot my father’s .44 magnum. After three shots, I was pissed off and could barely hear anything for several days even with hearing protection. If you don’t reasonably expect to be attacked by a Kodiak bear, you probably don’t need a .357 or a .44 magnum.
The main saving grace to .357 revolvers if that they also take the much lower powered .38 caliber cartridges so you can use them to target shoot without hurting yourself or developing and involuntary trigger-flinch response because of excessive recoil.
There’s more to it than “does it make a hole”. You want a bullet that will remain intact and still be able to penetrate a target effectively (minimum of 12 inches in 10% ballistic gel). Bullets that fragment or lose enough energy in the barrier that they aren’t effective at targets beyond can pose real problems for the shooter as the target will still be able to fire back. FBI protocol for ammunition evaluation requires testing with bare gelatin, heavy cloth, wall board, plywood, steel, and auto glass.
Though older, this is a nice post on the subject, and a good forum overall.
Can you shoot .44 special from a .44 magnum pistol? It might be less unpleasant.
I guess part of what I was trying to point out is that it’s the abbreviated language that’s very misleading for those who don’t know what exactly is it that the language is abbreviating, since it turns out that “calibers” don’t refer only to the diameter, but to a whole set of specs - to those of us watching from the sidelines, it’s an extremely confusing jumble. I happen to know that a 9-milimeter-parabellum is different from a 9-milimeter-no-lastname (I learned it when someone asked the question during a police press conference in which both calibers had been mentioned), but in general, people who have never handled a bullet have no idea that they are different sizes, shapes, materials and whatnot.
Sort of like the first time I did some mechanical fix-up by myself… thank whomever for monkey wrenches because man, finding the right bolt-nut-screwdriver match was a pain! The wrench had the decency to be one-size-fits-all.
Looking at an ammo caliber chart like this one may help. See how .38 Special and .357 Magnum are almost the same overall height, and yet the casing for the .357 Magnum is taller.
They can be bigger, e.g the popular S&W 686 can have a 6 or 7 round cylinder.
Because .357 is a bit cheaper than .44. .44 is more powerful but it gets a lot of interest due to Dirty Harry. .38/.357 is way cheaper/easier to find (see below).
Yes, you can. But .44 spl is pretty hard to find at retail locations. Certainly .38spl is very common comparatively. Similarly, .44spl can be reloaded with .44mag dies, as the major difference is length.
What does this mean? 99.99999% of the time, “9 millimeter” equals 9x19mm Parabellum/Luger. Makarov/.380/Largo/IMI need to be qualified by length and/or name. I think this is pretty standard in most of the world, including ex-Communist countries that invented the competitors.
That image compares a round nose to a flat nose or possibly SWC (I think it doesn’t look like the latter though). Those pictures are very specific and do not represent the general appearance. Observe the brass length difference; there is a 0.135 inches difference, except .357 may have a heavier bullet. But because revolvers headspace on the rim, an intermediate length may not be a problem, no matter which normal bullet is used. When reloading, you should read the powder and bullet specifications, as the overall length (OAL) varies greatly
It could also be a JHP. The chart was meant to be helpful to Nava or someone with her limited shooting experience, to show some common handgun ammo calibers. It wasn’t meant to be an exhaustive depiction of all types of ammo.
