Anachronism, you’re probably right that they make a lot, on Friday and Saturday night. The same person will probably spend Mon - Thurs at the same restaurant waiting on 4 tables a night instead of 10, or not working there at all. They also spend time before and after dinner setting up / cleaning up the restaurant, so the $$$/hr goes down.
Anachronism, many server don’t get to keep the whole tip themselves. It is often divided between the waitstaff, hostesses, buspeople, dishwashers, etc. each getting a percent. Also, you have to keep in mind that the restaurant is not always busy, so a waitress might make $100 one hour, but earlier in her shift it was dead so she made $10. And the day before she got a bad shift so she made $20 the whole day. The staff often rotates the “good” shifts so it averages out. That said, on a good night waitstaff can take home quite a bit of cash.
All this talk of tipping got me to thinking about an argument I have had with a friend. Coincidently, Barbarian, you were the one who made this thought surface. I believe, but am not 100% certain that the tip should officially be taken in consideration pre-tax. I basically use the 10’s calculation you mention but always use the after tax one if the server is good, or the before one if the service is average. If the server is bad but trying, then it is in the average scale. If the server is bad and belligerent (it happens) then I will make sure they get significantly less if they did something really nasty (like throw the plates on the table and calling us fags). That would actually get a talking to the manager.
Anyway, the question was, is it technically correct to tip the pre-tax bill or post-tax total?
Technically, the pre-tax amount. But it really doesn’t make all that much difference. Fifteen to twenty percent of 5-7% of the bill doesn’t add up to that much. The bill is often not subtotalled before the tax, so I don’t bother doing the high level mathematics required to save a buck.
Thanks for the update. However, if I eat in the city, tax on luxury items (such as food) is 10%. It isn’t worth it if it is a 1-5 bucks; however, I took my bf to a fancy shmancy restaurant for his birthday and the bill was closer to 200 bucks without a tip (without drinks). That is a much bigger difference.
How to figure a tip 101 (for those not mathematically inclined)
Take bill total eg. $35.08
Move decimal over
to left one place eg. $3.508
Now double it eg. $7.01
A perfect 20% tip everytime.
We have 7% tax here… I double the tax and round up. Chalk me up as one Canadian who doesn’t skimp on the tip, eh?
Apparently, in addition to the pre-tax/post-tax question, there is some debate over how to tip for alcohol. Do you tip the waiter 15% for a $20 bottle of wine and for a $100 bottle of wine when the waiter is doing the same work? In fancier restaurants where there is a separate bar staff or wine steward are you supposed to tip the waiter for the food and the bar staff for the wine?
Fortunately (?) I can’t afford that kind of restaurant, so it’s a moot point for me. But if anyone knows correct protocol I’d love to hear it… just in case.
I don’t know about having seperate waitstaff for various bits of dinner, but I do know that you’re supposed to tip the waiter a percentage of the total, regardless of what you order. I mean, it takes just as much work to bring you the $5.95 soup/salad special as it does to bring you a $15 steak, but you don’t tip the same for both of those meals, do you? Besides, you’d better believe the server will be paying more income tax for having fetched you that $100 bottle than for the $20 bottle.
quote from pfbob:
>>I’m assuming US, mainly since Europeans don’t much like to tip anyway<<
Actually, many European countries regulate pay scale so that tips are included in the price. Often people travelling to the US for the first time have no idea about tipping and merely follow the custom in their own country (ex. rounding up to the nearest $1.00 or $5.00 increment).
At the same time, many Americans come to Europe and follow the US custom of leaving a tip on the table. This is considered EXTREMELY rude behavior and it leaves the diner perplexed as to why, when s/he returns to the same restaurant the following night s/he is treated with contempt.
There are some countries or restaurants that require schooling waitpersons (rather than hiring someone off the street at less than minimum wage + tips) and that leads to a whole set of rules of etiquette the typical foreign tourist has no clue about. I’m not talking about “McHamburger University,” “Super Server” seminar, or “how to fold a napkin to look like a swan.” This is serious business: what position to place your hands while serving, how to suggest something with the correct inflection, how many cm away from the customer/table you should stand when pouring water (really anal stuff!).
Another thing you forgot to touch on is HOW LONG Europeans take for their meals. It’s not a means of nourishment, but more of a social event here --not that we’re all farmers who eat off the land and consider dining out a “special treat” done once a month. 
That was absolute culture shock to me! I was used to the American “get 'em in and get 'em out” approach to dining. One particularly vivid memory is sitting in a restaurant on possibly the most boring night of my life. Five hours and a pack of cigarettes later I got extremely rude and practically screamed at my husband, “I need to get out of here now!” citing a lame female emergency. Yeah I know: YUCK, but I would have rather gnawed my own arm off to keep from sitting there one minute longer.
Kitty
Which countries do you have in mind? I always tip in the EU (though not 15 percent) and the result is great service, free desserts, and in some cases invites to parties and days in the country.
This is something I learned from American Good Ol’ Boys and Asian and Middle Eastern businessmen. Act like a whale.
>>Which countries do you have in mind? I always tip in the EU (though not 15 percent) and the result is great service, free desserts, and in some cases invites to parties and days in the country. <<
Sorry, I guess I should have made that a bit more clear.
It isn’t the actual act of tipping (rounding up the bill) that causes them to get bent out of shape, but that of leaving tip money on the table. I have found that to be the case in France & Germany.
Most restaurants here have a folder or box in which the bill is presented to you. The receipt has a line in which you fill the amount you wish to pay (the total of bill plus the tip, you wiseguys 
). You write the figure then slip the cash/debit card into the box. In family-run restaurants it’s common for the waitstaff to have a wallet. Then you’d round up to the next 1 or 2 Euro increment right there at the table.
I don’t know if I or anyone else mentioned it, but German restaurants automatically add the tip on the bill no matter how many people are in the group or the $Euro amount. I guess it’s a way of regulating the pay scale.
kitty–
I’m aware of the cultural differences involved which could cause misunderstandings which then lead to a bad tip. Unfortunatley, I have not had as much experiance as I would hope dining outside of the US, so I will defer to those tht have regarding the actual practice there.
However, regarding the lack of knowledge by Europeans that US servers rely on their tips I just dont buy it. First of all we’re all sitting here on the internet talking obout this from all over the world, aware that you tip American servers (generally) and don’t tip European servers (generally). Second, most of the time I spent workign in bars and restaraunts was in Boulder, Colorado, quite a bit more in Denver. Now, I love these towns and they do get their share of tourists, but there ain’t no direct Munich to Boulder flights, for example. Most people who make it to Boulder are on a side trip from their main vacation (same goes for Dnever-the main vacation generally being the Mountains), I’m pretty sure I wasn’t their first American dining experience. Third, and mostly, as with the Christians, I talked to them, I was nice to them, I bonded with them, I asked them where they were from, why they were here, where they were headed, wished them a good time, and generally established the fact that they were at leat generally familiar with the way things worked. Now I dont think these were awful people (unlike the Christians) I really do respect, and even envy Europe and Europeans (hell, I love the French–really!), but they were on fixed budgets, and spending a lot on vacation, and they had a hard time doing something they normally didnt have to do at home. I’m sure they felt bad about the bad tip for a while, but the extra beer they were able to buy later helped them live with it.
Re: “Obvious” Christians.
These people are the mental descendants of the Pharisees. They make a big deal out of acting good and holy because it’s easier than actually being good and holy. There’s people like this in every religion.
I can’t tell you how the flights go from Munich, but knowing the German attitude towards vacation, I would think that the majority of people that visit Boulder aren’t visiting the US for the first time. Most Germans visit other European countires (mainly Spain where they stay in the “German section” --all you Germans on the board are laughing right now, admit it). When they DO go to the US, it’s generally Florida or Las Vegas.
Yes, we are on the Internet talking about it, but not every traveller plans his vacation over the Internet. Roughly 52% of the people worldwide don’t have a computer (I’m sure someone here could give you a more accurate figure regarding Internet access). Most don’t think beyond picking a spot and paying the agent who takes care of everything, including choosing restaurants.
Maybe the people you’ve come in contact with are much more travel savvy but you can go into a restaurant in the US and see American people make a gaffe or two. How often have you been to a restaurant and crumpled the napkin up or thrown it onto your plate at the end of the meal? Does the Italian restaurant down the street give you a spoon with your spaghetti or do you have to request it? Have you ever seen people sticking chopsticks into their food in a Japanese restaurant? Japanese restaurants have been around at least throughout my own lifetime and Sushi bars have been trendy in the US since the mid-80s, yet people still have no idea about etiquette.
Well, I’m not trying to pick a fight here or anything but:
Your first paragraph supports my point: that the people who make it Boulder, or even Denver from Europe do tend to be the more travel saavy, i.e. they’ve done Vegas and Disney and are now broadening their horizons a bit, thus they have had ample opportunity to learn the local tipping customs.
Your second paragraph is something of a specious arguement. I would actually guess that the percentage of people in the world without a computer is quite a bit higher than that, but never mind. We’re talking about the percentage of people affluent and to afford a foreign vacation, (or more than one, actually) I would assume that the percentage of computer owners amongst this demographic is quite a bit higher than 52%.
Based upon your third paragraph I must be the cretin because I wouldn’t dream of eating my pasta with a spoon. But to your point: I have worked in restaraunts which have ranged from chain pizza, to burgers and related, to mid-range seafood, to fine dining, and I have witnessed gaffes in etiquite at all of them, and yet even hand-switching death grip on your fok types have generally been decent tippers, while the groups I outlined above teneded not to be.
I’m not saying its a scientific study, just based upong my experience. Quite a few people seem to have agreed with my sentiments regarding Christians, less so perhaps with some of the others. As a side note, sort of related, its generally a pleasure to wait on European or Australian tourists, they tend to be polite, personable, and engaging, they just also tend to tip poorly.
To introduce a few comments about “class status” and how it relates to tipping, I will rely on the admittedly unscientific observations of some close friends who’ve had extensive time in server jobs…
The various types of tippers can be broken down into four basic categories, all relative to their incomes:
-
LOWER MIDDLE CLASS TO POOR: These people usually leave between 10-12 percent…a bit lower than the customary norm.
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MIDDLE-CLASS: Usually the most reliable tippers, especially blue-collar types. They tip between 15-20 percent.
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UPPER-MIDDLE CLASS: The worst tippers on the planet. People with annual incomes of 100k to 200k are usually nouvous-riche and are incessantly critical of every aspect of service. They leave tips averaging between 5 to 10 percent.
4: THE RICH: very inconsistent in their tipping. When they’re happy, they will leave 30 to 40 percent, but cause them to wait more than a few minutes for their dessert or make one mistake with their food and they’re likely to leave you ZERO. Apparently this is the only class group who have absolutely no shame in leaving no tip.
In addition, a controversial remark…apparently Jewish people manage to take the lead in being the worst tippers on the planet, no matter what their class status. Several friends of mine who’ve worked in D.C. and upclass Maryland suburbs like Potomoc attest that Jewish people have the practice of breaking down the bill into product they liked and product they didn’t like…(in other words, they liked the entree, but not the appetizer or desert) and basing their tip on the portion of the bill that they liked.
So if a bill is 60 bucks, and breaks down like this:
10 dollars for drinks
10 dollars for appetizer
35 bucks for two entrees
5 dollars tax
and they only liked the entrees, then they’ll figure the tip on 35 dollars, not the entire 50 dollar check.
All insinuations of anti-Semitism please keep to yourself. This is second-hand information and not personal experience.
I have no problem with this as long as the table tells me upfront and denotes who is with who. This way I can make notations on the different items as they are ordered. Usually a small number to the left of the item. And usually I write down a little description of the different groups. For instance: brown & wife-1, bald & green-2, to tell me the guy in the brown shirt and his wife are on one tab, while the bald guy and the green shirt are on another. Asking me in a party of 10, especially if they’re all drinking, to split the tab at the end, and expecting me to remember who had exactly what is almost impossible… if not downright annoying.
Because some people tip much better then 20%, and that can make a big difference between a $30 Monday night and a $70 Monday night. And if the servers knew no matter what, they were at best getting only 15% of their total sale, plus $2.13 an hour, while still having to give as much 5% (again in total sales) in tipouts, I wouldn’t be very motivated to do this job. That would mean tonight I would have only made 100.20 in pre tipout 's, then had to give up $20.04 (we have a 3% tipout rate, which I used here) and I would have walked with $80.16 instead of the $138.16 that I came home with. That’s $17 and some change an hour, verses $10 an hour other wise. I don’t include hourly wage here as I rarely see a paycheck. We get taxed on 10% of our total sales and this is added onto the payroll taxes, leaving… nothing most of the time. At a 40/hr a week job that would be the difference in $35,360 and $20,800 in yearly salary. (Not that most servers work 40/hr weeks, more like 15-20, so cut that in half.) Not very good money, but add in the tips and it’s not so bad.
Also, knowing that I will be tipped well if I give great service is a big motivation. I take the time to pay attention even when we are so busy that everyone’s in a tissy. I read my tables the best I can and try to go out of my way to make sure those I wait on enjoy it.
It’s not just by looking at them, (on preview I see some others have beat me to it, but…) it’s that these are the one’s that invite you to their church everytime they come in and all the waiters know who they are because they ask each and every one of you each and every time. Other then that they make little to no small talk (not that that’s bad in itself), but generally they do tend to leave their church propaganda for you with a handful of change. .
Re: Christians and tipping.
I used to eat out regularly late (11 pm or so) on Fridays with a group averaging about a dozen. We’d rotate among three coffeeshops depending on the mood of the group. One time when we were ushered into the back room, there were two church groups there (they had their Bibles with them). About fifteen minutes later one of the groups got up, taking their check to the register, and leaving a tip on the table. About five minutes after that, the second group got up, and one of the members scooped up the tip from the other table, taking it with him to the register.
Two of the more assertive members in our party (Not including me, to my shame) trotted up to the register and ratted on the asshat. The manager told them not to come back, and we all tipped extra – it was the same server for all three tables – when we left. That was twenty years ago, and my mind is still trying to wrap around how anyone could rationalize that it was okay to do that.
DD
I work in a restaurant whose main patrons are slightly older upper middle class ladies… lotsa big parties, etc.
I have seen people get great, personal service and still leave $1.00 per person. it doesn’t matter if they each got $17 worth of food and stayed for 2 hours, or that they asked for special treatments of items on the menu (“We’d like our dessert split 3 ways and can I have half regular and half decaf coffee?”)
Some people just have no idea how much work it takes to keep a hungry person happy. I never thought it would take so much when I started working in restaurants, and I’m not even a server.
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and declare this one asked and answered.