I learnt to drive in New Zealand, where (at least where I was growing up) automatic transmissions were regarded as largely being for old people who were just tootling down to the shops or the bowls club.
Most cheap cars (ie the sort a high school student could afford) were manual transmissions as well, so I learnt to drive a manual and it’s been my preference ever since.
I have to say I’ve never understood the “Complicated to drive in heavy traffic” or “Distracting” arguments- as AK84 mentioned earlier, it’s almost instinctive so I just change gears without even thinking about it, regardless of whether it’s crawling along in city traffic or heading down the motorway.
Of course, I don’t think automatics are “worse” than manuals- I just prefer a manual. But I did wonder why automatic was so prevalent in the US (at least from what I’ve observed on my visits there) so it’s an interesting thread all the same…
You know, with posts like these, I am not exactly convinced to run out and buy a stick. :dubious: I’m sure everyone else loves being patronized to, though, and I’m sure those tactics will work wonders.
I’ve driven a stick and an automatic, and I definitely prefer the automatic. Who cares about any of those things you guys said? I just want a car to get me from point A to point B with the minimum of fuss. I am the average car driver, except I don’t have a bunch of kids in the back. If sticks were the predominant car, I’d get a stick; I wouldn’t go against the herd in this respect.
Hell, if I could, I’d probably go to a car that steered itself. I am anxiously awaiting for the Google line of cars that will drive me to my destination. And I like driving…I just am not madly in love with it.
For me, I feel much safer in a manual transmission car. Maybe the feeling of more control is an illusion, but it’s definitely there. I think you’re underestimating what people can do, it’s not really that much more investment of time. If you don’t pick it up quickly though, maybe it just isn’t for you. I didn’t take me long to learn, but I wont claim that it’s the same for everyone. The investment/payoff ratio is irrelevant in other words.
And then there’s that I just enjoy the act of driving. I’m not a motor head or anything, I don’t know the first thing about car brands or engines etc.
However, your steps are a bit wrong. There are a few possible uphill scenarios.
You were parked uphill. In this case your handbrake would be on. Get your clutch and accelerator sorted out, release handbrake and go.
You were moving then reached a hill that you need to pause briefly on. In this case there’s no need to even use your brake (seriously, braking on a hill?), just find the biting point and wait until things start moving.
You were moving then reached a hill and need to pause for a long time. Come to a halt, then use your handbrake to remain stationary. You can’t be using your brake pedal whilst using the clutch, because you need some ‘gas’ to find the biting point again.
I disagree with the people who say automatic is being lazy. I use a netbook at university to take notes - the reason being it’s faster and my handwriting is atrocious (always has been, even before I started using computers, I get wrist ache very, very quickly from it too). Maybe it’s more lazy if you remove the connotations of ‘lazy’ being a bad thing, but unfortunately that word comes loaded with the idea that it is somehow wrong or inferior.
And on a motorway, I have wished several times that it has changed gear faster.
I don’t think it does, really. Like many things, it becomes second-nature; like walking or cycling. You’re not really consciously aware of doing it a lot of the time.
In other news - man, some folks in this thread are *really angry *about car transmissions!
Try to come down on one side. Either you’re calling all women lazy or you’re acknowledging that trading some positives for others is not laziness. But you can’t have it both ways.
As soon as you’ve stepped into a car - any vehicle at all - you’re already made a million tradeoffs. Manual vs. automatic is already way down the list before you’ve turned the engine on. It’s kind of funny watching people scratch off all those differences until they come to the one they feel passionate about and then argue that as if it were number one. It ain’t.
My God you make it sound like flying the space shuttle. KIf you really know how to drive a manual; the clutch and the gears are just additional controls. If you are parked in heavy traffic on a flat surface, you can just as easily put the car in neutral, pull up the handbrake and thats that.
By the way you are doing it wrong WRT to a hill. Have the clucth semi depressed and give it s bit of gas and the car in first. That should be sufficient to prevent any roll backs.
Speaking only for myself, of course, here’s my justification: I just don’t care about driving. It’s not an experience, it’s not a feeling, it’s not a thrill. It’s a chore. It’s something I must do to get from here to there, “here” and “there” being the places where my life occurs. So. I have two major options in how to do this. One requires an extra foot, an extra hand, and a whole lot of fiddly adjusting more than the other option. I choose the option that’s simpler. Why add all those extra steps to something when I don’t have to? I have yet to hear a justification that I find at all compelling.
You must live in small town. For the millions of people who live in cities like Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, and LA stop-and-go traffic is traffic. Whether one is going down the street to the store, taking the kids to school, or commuting to work it is in stop-and-go traffic. I have an hour and fifteen minute commute to work (repeat to come home). 45 minutes of it is stop-and-go; it is unavoidable. This is the norm for most commuters in Houston.
I learned on a stick because my father made me. After my first car I switched to automatic and never looked back. I find that people who like driving manuals like driving in general. I hate driving. I simply can’t understand people who enjoy it at all, but each to their own tastes. For me driving is a terrible chore, a necessary evil. If there were public transport that could get me around I’d use it. If I won the Powerball lottery one of the first luxuries I would indulge would be hiring a full time chauffeur. I beg for the day cars will drive themselves. As for now I welcome whatever can be done to make driving less work me.
Wasting time and energy on something that is not important to you isn’t laziness. An automatic transmission is a small but noticeable luxury in my daily driving. I’d do fine without it. But an extra nano-second of acceleration isn’t worth the effort. People who aren’t car enthusiasts seem to do perfectly well without the near-mythical performance advantages of manual transmissions. Funny that.
^
Come to any city in South Asia. Or London or Paris even. The traffic there is worse than any I have seen anywhere. Yet most people do well with manuals.
I also hate driving. I however pefer manuals; because they give me control over the vehical. At least there is a semi-sentinent human being telling the car what to do, not the machine.
I don’t know about Europe but here in the US manual transmissions are often associated with proles. It’s not simply because manual transmissions are cheaper and capable of being push-started and therefore more appealing to the blue-collar crowd, it’s also the machismo and bragging rights associated with insisting on driving a stick shift.
You ain’t a real driver unless you know how to harness a horse.
Scratch that. You ain’t really driving unless you’re standing next to an ox trying to persuade it to move forward. That’s when having a stick is a huge advantage. Otherwise, all you can do is yell.
Damn straight. I’m much more concerned about the quality of the seats, the air conditioning, and the built-in Ipod controls. Who gives a fuck about the transmission?
I learned stick in a Rambler Classic. In college, I had to drive drunken yahoos home in a Ford Mustang. In a job I drove an old object similar to a Chevy Suburban. All 3 had different configurations. Strike one.
Not everyone in the US lives in the Flatlands. Learning stick in any of the hilly terrains is either suicidal or homicidal. Strike two.
The US is becoming more urban. Yonks ago, kids learned stick in the farm pickup truck on lanes and gravel roads. When they got their first car, they already knew stick. Dying lifestyle, strike three.
I also suspect that as even the healthiest person ages they know someone, or heard of a FoaF, that was essentially unable to get to work/stranded because they had a stick shift car and injured a foot/wrist/back. Stick shifts don’t seem attractive after having that happen.
Isn’t it a bit condescending to characterize anyone who doesn’t drive a clutch-manual as lazy? We don’t use cranks to turn engines, anymore, and we don’t use chokes…a clutch-driven manual is inefficient in most modern cars, these days, just like devices of old.
For much of the major cities in America, we exist as a car culture, where we use our vehicles for many tasks. Keeping your engine within it’s powerband isn’t critical to achieving those tasks. The goal is to get the task done, not necessarily how, especially in A to B travel situations, which even in a clutch-manual, is what the majority of us do. The development and proliferation of autos, pretty much reinforces this.
So far as traffic is concerned, I drive both a manual performance car and an auto/clutchless manual performance car. For anyone who actually has driven a manual for quite a period of time, they’ll know that it’s largely secondary, and doesn’t require much effort-- for me, that means it’s no more fun or exciting in most of my daily commuting, just as I don’t get excited about pedaling a bike or breathing while walking. If you’re bored while operating a car in traffic, it’s largely because traffic sucks, in whatever you drive. Traffic = junk driving, period.
As to safety, any day of the week, the auto is more practical for daily driving needs, and leaves considerably less room for error. That’s leagues safer than letting the human side of people get the better of them, potentially missing a shift or stalling at an inopportune moment, which I’ve seen happen a number of times to drivers. If the idea is that under performance driving, that manual control is safer, then I really question the idea behind someone arguing safety, while “performance driving” on the street.
As to genuine performance, the clutch-manual loses there, too. Lifting off the throttle mid-turn, then reapplying, is a greater detriment to consistent performance, than is the ability to shift mid-turn, while staying on throttle. This is especially the case when you include the fact that modern autos shift faster, and never “miss” a shift. At least in my autoX/course experience, I’ve always preferred my clutchless auto, as it’s far more precise, quick, and allows me to focus on my heading, brake points, and other important details which help reduce lap times, which in the end, determines if I’m getting better or not. In my opinion, controlling a car should be easy and predictable as possible. Micro-managing details which don’t directly add to performance, hurts this.
Does driving a clutch-manual feel good? It sure does, but the advantages are either minor, selective/situational, or largely subjective.
Again, most people drive conservatively and will over-brake long before they get to the edge of traction. You then have car makes which dial in a measure of understeer, in even most track oriented performance cars. Though I’m honestly interested in which advantages you’re talking about, there are many more at or below the level of traction loss, which favor the auto, making it a moot point if quantifying advantages.
And as a funny side thought, most people don’t really take care of their tires, so I REALLY hope they aren’t pushing traction limits, while relying on the gearbox to somehow have much influence. I’d say most are inclined to panic, and so realistically, any gearbox advantage is a non-starter.
I believe you’re meant to use those special “gears” in slippery conditions, so you can rev the engine a bit while constraining it to a low gear. On a couple occasions I’ve had to drive through ice patches, while going up a sloping driveway or street, and using the “D2” setting did seem to help.
Having a car with four-wheel drive would be even better for that, of course, but that’s a different matter.
I drove sticks for the first 19 years of my driving career (I guess that puts me in the cool kids club huh?). Sure you got better traction control, acceleration control, blah, blah, blah. But let’s face it, for 95% of your daily driving you’re not out there on a road rally course.
I switched to automatics about 6 years ago and I’ll never go back. They are just way more practical for daily driving situations.
Try drinking a daily cup of coffee on the way to work in a manual. It’s a pain in the ass. You have to essentially hold the bottom of the cup with your right hand thumb and index finger and shift with the other 3 fingers trying not to dump hot joe over your hand.
And driving stick in stop-n-go traffic sucks balls. It’s non-stop footwork working that clutch up and down and jostling between the gas and brake with the other foot. Way, waay easier to just ease up on the brake and creep forward in an automatic.
Sure, sticks are the “FUN” way to drive but practicality wise they just don’t cut it.
[QUOTE=AK84]
Ok why exactly is a stick “work”? If you know how to drive properly it is instinctive… My God you make it sound like flying the space shuttle…
[/QUOTE]
Done any trips round the M25 in the last ten years?
I spent 20 years driving manuals and I know what you mean by instinctive, gearchanging becomes a completely unconscious action. If the clutch is light it’s pretty much effortless. However, on a bad* day a fifty-plus mile trek on the British motorway system can require hundreds of stop/start cycles. I now drive an automatic, not going back.
I think this is a common feeling, and I’m not making a judgment, but it’s a point of view I don’t share. In fact, I’m the opposite–while driving certainly is a something I do to get from here to there, to me, it is a thrill. I love driving. I love the command and control I have to go where I want. (It’s not a power game over others when I say “command and control,” but I have control over where and when I go.)
Even though I drive a 4-cylinder Camry with over 200,000 miles, I often think of the picnic scene in The Hustler when I’m driving. The one where Eddie’s talking about how he and the cue stick are one…the stick’s a piece of wood, but it’s got nerves in it, and he has ball bearings in his shoulder. That’s how I often feel when I’m driving.
When you get used to a car, and know its nuances, how it handles (whether it’s a Porsche or Chevy), what it can and can’t do, and you enjoy the experience of driving, then all I can say is driving a stick just enhances the experience that much more.
My point is that even if a manual is even slightly harder than an automatic, it’s still not worth it. Except for the price, I just don’t see the advantage. I don’t understand what the car guys are referring to when they say that a manual gives better “control”. My accelerator works, my steering wheel works, and my brakes work; how much more control do I need?
For example, you yourself wrote
I really don’t get it. I’m driving up a mountain, and sometimes I want to go faster, and sometimes I want to go slower, and I have no trouble doing that with a automatic, provided it isn’t 10 years old and dying. Why don’t you “trust” them?
By the way, everyone, the opinions being expressed here have tempted me several times to suggest that this thread be moved to IMHO. But I don’t because we really are trying to get some factual information here. Speaking purely for myself, an admitted “Point A to Point B Steerer” (who DID buy a manual about 25 years ago, but then gave up on it), I really would like to know what sort of driving advantages people find using a manual in everyday city driving. Again, don’t tell me that using a stick becomes easy and natural; tell me what the advantages are.