What I meant was that a lot of whites have historically found it undesirable to live near black people in noticeable numbers, citing various reasons. What we know is that when black migration northward caused major changes in urban demography, whites began moving away from black residents, out of cities, and into suburbs. Many of these suburbs began growing right around the time of forced busing, which essentially demonstrates that it’s racism itself, not the failure of black communities, that have driven whites away from cities with large black populations. They also took their businesses, their jobs, their tax bases, their quality schools and school teachers, and their supermarkets with them as well. Have black governments and administrators in some cases compounded these problems with corruption? Sure, but institutionalized racism is largely responsible for the perpetual deprivation of economic and community resources within black communities.
All of this is to say that when you point out that white families want to get away from horrible public systems, I’m not going to disagree with you that many urban (mostly-black) school systems are indeed pretty awful and not something I’d want to put my own children (if I had any) in. But at the same time, I understand that such failure represent generations of institutionalized racism that have established through law separate living conditions and in the decades since the end of American apartheid still utterly failed to demonstrate a desire for proper redress. Whites don’t want to fix the problems that they’ve created for black communities; their answer for everything is to say “just shut up and get over it,” and they take their families out of cities and they take their wealth and their opportunity with them. And then they vote for people who ensure that the game remains largely rigged against blacks, other minorities, and even poor whites to a lesser degree.
Urbanredneck, people’s experiences make them learn the wrong message all the time.
There are a shitload of anxiety sufferers in this world. People are afraid to ride elevators, drive over bridges, talk to strangers, go on dates, make eye contact with dogs, walk in the rain, step out of their apartments, talk on the phone, go swimming, eat peanut butter, step on cracks, sleep with their mouths open… The list goes on. And a lot of time, those fears are based on first-hand or second-hand experience. Like, someone has a bad marriage and they suddenly become afraid of all relationships, despite the fact that most people who are in relationships seem to be enjoying themselves quite alright.
Human learning isn’t always rational. It is frequently irrational. But people can be deprogrammed when they give themselves the opportunity and they stop being so pig-headed and stupid.
Which is true of everyone, white, black, Asian, Hispanic, or other.
The fear of racism is no different.
People are afraid of pit bulls, because incidents involving those dogs are heavily publicized and sensationalized. Pit bulls do bite people, but compared to similar dogs, they aren’t a particularly significant problem. Incidents of racism do occur. Those incidents are heavily publicized and sensationalized.
I’m assuming that whites are not the only ones who can be pig-headed or who might need re-programming.
My mother programmed me to be highly distrustful of white people. She grew up in a time that even the most die-hard conservative can acknowlege was rife with anti-black racism. So her wariness of white people actually makes sense, even if it can also be viewed as unhealthy.
Even though I was raised to be distrustful and even though bad experiences with white people have sometimes vindicated my lack of trust, I work consciously to push back against my tendencies. Why? Because my success depends on being able to trust whites. I am constantly surrounded by them. If I didn’t try get along with white people, I would be crippled.
Non-whites have a vested interest in “deprogramming” themselves. They know if they are afraid of every white person they meet, they aren’t going to go far in life. Are there non-whites who are racist? Sure. But do non-whites have the luxury of living in bubbles where their fragility is indulged ? No. Non-whites are forced to look at the pit bull in the eye day after day. They are forced to confront their fear and mistrust.
I have racist beliefs, but the difference between you and Urbanredneck is that I know they are bullshit. I also know that I have a responsibility to fight those beliefs regardless of whether anyone else fights theirs. Personal responsibility used to be a conservative talking point. I guess that’s just one more value you guys have let fall by the wayside.
Lets pretend your premise is true, now what? In the urban school systems, the teacher are mostly black, the principals are mostly black, the school boards are mostly black, and the politicians are mostly black.
Is the problem the white teachers that devoted their lives to teaching minority students?
Did the white students moving away 50 years ago so damage urban schools that they are impossible to improve?
Is the only answer to wait for racism to die down and the white students to move back, or can the black people who are in charge of these schools improve them now?
See, this I dig. I’ve been reading this whole thread and debating if I should wade in or not…being an Old White Guy.
I distinctly remember taking the lessons of Sesame Street to heart as a kid. That there is something to learn from everyone you meet, and that, for the most part, people are good. I’ve worked hard to be that kid, but I’m human, I’ve slipped I’m sure.
The OP has done an excellent job of painting anything I could possibly say into a corner. Dismissing everything I’ve experienced as myopic, blind-spot, white privilege. There’s not a thing I can do about that. I suspect as an Old White Guy, there’s nothing I could do to redeem myself in the eyes of some of the more militant members of this thread.
Life is not uniformly spread about, and there are people that rise up or sink down based on their own initiative, experience, and learned behavior. People have been good and bad to each other for as long as there have been people.
I’ve made a point of raising my kids to be inclusive, and I feel i’ve done a pretty good job of it…but they’ll be white kids, from a white family, and thus will be ‘compromised’ as a result. If this thread is to be believed.
My grandmother was racist but she didn’t pass it down to me.
I grew up in a country that celebrated Black History month every year at school, where Deadwood Dick, George Washington Carver, and Madame CJ Walker were part of the curriculum. Where MLK, Rosa Parks, and Nelson Mandela were secular saints. In every movie, or tv show that had a racist on it, he was either the villain or being redeemed. The constant refrain from pop culture, religion, school, and the government was always that racism was evil, and discrimination was bad.
My grandmother is dead and her mindset about race is too, why should we pretend otherwise?
In my personal experience, that mindset is alive and well, it’s just gotten new rhetoric. Speaking just of that kind of personal, day-to-day individual racism (as opposed to institutional/systemic racism, which is also alive and well), Birtherism could only survive and thrive for years (as it did) if there were millions of folks inclined to believe the worst about a prominent black person despite zero evidence for it. I hear terrible, disgusting things about the personal character and hygiene of immigrants and Muslims multiple times per month in my office. In the Navy, I served with a lot of courageous and patriotic young men, many of whom expressed disgust at even the possibility of interracial dating. The President praises white supremacist marchers as “good people”, and tens of millions continue to support him. If I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard white acquaintances say “I’m not racist, but…” followed by something racist, I’d be rich.
Personal racism is alive and well. It’s just different than it was in the mid 20th century. Most who traffic and engage in it would swear on a stack of bibles that they aren’t racist at all.
But I would add: nobody wants to see themselves as being part of a problem, even if it is a very small part of the problem. White people have a hard time recognizing that they have benefited from a racist system because all people will hold onto the notion that their achievements are overwhelmingly due to their unique ingenuity and skills, and not because they happened to be in the right place, at the right time, and had the proper appearance.
In fits and starts, I think it is. But sometimes we take a step back, and I think we have in the last few years. IMO it’s vital that we Americans remember that the most harmful philosophy in American history has always been, and still is, white supremacism. White supremacism has harmed and killed orders of magnitude more Americans than any other philosophy. We ignore or minimize it at our own peril.
You’ll get no disagreement from me there…but it’s not racisim that took a step back (at least not by itself). My theory is that Hundreds of White Supremacists were pissing off THOUSANDS of Protesters on the other side, which was then packaged up by the media and distributed to MILLIONS of viewers for money.
But we’ve also taken great hits on the Ecological front and more and more economic power is being concentrated in fewer and fewer pots.
Meanwhile, Us unwashed masses are being distracted while it occurs.
Is there more casual subconscious racism? I can’t answer that. I’m also not sure what the finish-line would be that declares ‘X is wonderfully non-racist!’ Where X is a person, family, school, city, state, or nation.
I know MANY things are being blown out of proportion for profit. Racism included.
Actually I think some of Obama’s policies like going after schools for suspending black kids also caused problems because the schools then could not get rid of the kids causing trouble.
Try being a white teacher disciplining a black student.
I am finding it hilarious (not) that Urbanredneck has chosen to ignore the link I provided upthread to research that shows black kids are disciplined more harshly than their white counterparts for the same offenses. No, he wants us to ignore the facts and just assume that black kids have got their teachers hogtied and cowering in corners. Because what’s easier to believe? Racism? Or scary black kids?
I didn’t draw conclusions from that link. It was stated therein experts aren’t in agreement over reasons for the disparity. I think those who teach know as well as anyone what it is like and I would much rather listen to those who have the experience, who entered grittier teaching jobs with an open mind. I think this is the kind of reporting UrbanRedneck is looking for. I don’t endorse the bias and agenda here but there are some disturbing questions being raised that might have validity.